Ships being sold, orders cancelled, ships scrapped due to COVID-19

[Oceanic]

Sadly, its happened... goodbye Marco Polo, she's hard aground on the beach. This spells the end of the entire Ivan-Franko Class.
Seeing this makes me all the more glad QE2 didn't suffer the same indignity, whether you agree with the changes or not, it's a damn slight better than this.

<

[cunardqueen]

Gosh, sad to see the Astor being beached, she was one of my very first ships visits in Orkney in the 80s

[Rob Lightbody]

Sadly, its happened... goodbye Marco Polo, she's hard aground on the beach. This spells the end of the entire Ivan-Franko Class.
Seeing this makes me all the more glad QE2 didn't suffer the same indignity, whether you agree with the changes or not, it's a damn slight better than this.

<

I'm just watching the "Mighty Ships" episode on Marco Polo which is worth seeing if you've not seen it.

So sad.  But what is really sad is that that she never had a final season to say goodbye to her. At least we got that with QE2.  I'd probably have managed a trip on board if I'd known the end was coming.

However obviously my real thoughts on watching the programme are with the crew.  They'd have lost their jobs when CMV went under, and now they're ship is no more. Just this time last year all was well...

[Clydebuilt1971]

I'm just watching the "Mighty Ships" episode on Marco Polo which is worth seeing if you've not seen it.

So sad.  But what is really sad is that that she never had a final season to say goodbye to her. At least we got that with QE2.  I'd probably have managed a trip on board if I'd known the end was coming.

However obviously my real thoughts on watching the programme are with the crew.  They'd have lost their jobs when CMV went under, and now they're ship is no more. Just this time last year all was well...

Rob,

That episode was excellent. The ship was looking great as she has every time I have seen her on the Clyde. Very sad that she has ended up on the beach.

Gav

[Thomas Hypher]

I always thought how clever it was for Mighty Ships to use the postcard as a basis for showing her transformation through CGI.

[pete cain]

Yet another lady dies, what to say?

[Rob Lightbody]

I always thought how clever it was for Mighty Ships to use the postcard as a basis for showing her transformation through CGI.

Oh I never noticed that until you said - yes thats a lovely bit of work.

Sad that QE2 never lived long enough to have a Mighty Ships episode - for she was indeed, Mighty.

[Thomas Hypher]

Oh I never noticed that until you said - yes thats a lovely bit of work.

Sad that QE2 never lived long enough to have a Mighty Ships episode - for she was indeed, Mighty.

Indeed, or long enough in service to be filmed using a drone leaving Southampton and doing the "reverse S" as a couple/few YouTubers and various people on Instagram do these days.

[Thomas Hypher]

Royal Caribbean have just sold their subsidiary/brand Azamara Cruises (a fleet of 3 ships) to a private equity firm for $201 million dollars to focus on their core business. With Pullmantur gone too, I'm not sure Royal Caribbean have any other cruising subsidiaries/brands left.

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/travel/cruises/2021/01/19/royal-caribbean-group-selling-off-azamara-cruise-line/4211806001/

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-azamara-m-a-sycamore-idUSKBN29O1N3

If I may give an opinion here, this is exactly why I don't think a certain other 3 ship subsidiary of another big player in the cruise industry is anywhere near as safe from being sold off as many people are adamant it is. The other big player will also protect it's core business as much as it can. Nothing can be taken for granted these days and nothing is certain in this context either.

[Rob Lightbody]

You certainly may give an opinion, and it is highly valued, and I think your observation is very astute. 

I have separate concerns about the ability of the unique 18 year old QM2 to survive.

What might save QE & QV and maybe the new thing, however, is how closely they follow the Carnival "formula for making money" - aren't they after all basically completely standard Carnival ships, decorated differently?   The Azamara ships are sized completely differently - they're here in Glasgow just now, and they're really not very big at all.

It still looks a while off before they can start sailing again...

[Thomas Hypher]

You certainly may give an opinion, and it is highly valued, and I think your observation is very astute. 

I have separate concerns about the ability of the unique 18 year old QM2 to survive.

What might save QE & QV and maybe the new thing, however, is how closely they follow the Carnival "formula for making money" - aren't they after all basically completely standard Carnival ships, decorated differently?   The Azamara ships are sized completely differently - they're here in Glasgow just now, and they're really not very big at all.

It still looks a while off before they can start sailing again...

Likewise, regarding QM2 if the fleet were not sold together as a package if Carnival were to divest Cunard, which I think they would be given the separate but complimentary transatlantic and cruising flexibility the current fleet offers with QM2 being the jewel in the crown so to speak.

If the fleet was split up, I could see QV, QE, and particularly the new thing/monstrosity given it's being built (or certainly was being built?) being absorbed into HAL given they are all based off the Vista class to varying extents (including the Pinnacle class) and Cunard get HAL ship designs these days anyway. They wouldn't need major refits to be adapted brand wise after all and we've seen this already with P&O's Arcadia.

NCL have also just postponed sailing until May this year. One of their subsidiaries, Oceania Cruises has however announced a 180 day world cruise on one of it's ships for 2022/3 which must be a record duration or not far off a record duration for a world cruise by a cruise ship.

[Andy Holloway]

RCCL still 'own' Celebrity Cruises, well for now anyway.

[Thomas Hypher]

RCCL still 'own' Celebrity Cruises, well for now anyway.

Ah yes! Can't believe I overlooked that! 

[Andy Holloway]

The 3 Azamara ship's, Journey, Quest & Pursuit, were originally built for the long defunked Renaissance Cruise Line, who expanded too fast and couldn't make enough money to furnish their debts with high interest rates.

Nice ship's nonetheless and not dissimilar, in style and size, to RVS, only younger!

As with a lot of other cruise ships, they had a fair splattering of former Cunard staff so it was always interesting to being port with them and suddenly you'd hear a "hello", turn and Theresa's somebody you'd servedona Cunard ship with, only now they were with another ompany.

[Oceanic]

Likewise, regarding QM2 if the fleet were not sold together as a package if Carnival were to divest Cunard, which I think they would be given the separate but complimentary transatlantic and cruising flexibility the current fleet offers with QM2 being the jewel in the crown so to speak.

If the fleet was split up, I could see QV, QE, and particularly the new thing/monstrosity given it's being built (or certainly was being built?) being absorbed into HAL given they are all based off the Vista class to varying extents (including the Pinnacle class) and Cunard get HAL ship designs these days anyway. They wouldn't need major refits to be adapted brand wise after all and we've seen this already with P&O's Arcadia.

I think Cunard is safer than some, not that it's saying much, at the moment. I can, however, see your predictions for QE and QV occurring in a worst case scenario. I don't think they'd let go of QE just yet, she's still relatively young and very popular, but with the new Pinnacle Class ship on the way, I could see QV, the smallest and oldest of the Vista sisters, being offloaded to another line if Carnival's finances are truly dire.

That being said, Cunard's unique sailing schedule and routes are still more demanding on their fleet, even the cruisers. QE and QV do have heavier bow plating and a higher freeboard than other Vistas to deal with the Atlantic for instance. That does make one consider as to whether they would maintain the Cunard fleet above some others due to that needed speciality, and thus the difficulty in simply replacing the current line up. 

QM2 is certainly safe, she is built to last, 40 years, and is still among the largest and most luxurious, whilst being the only modern liner capable of that lucrative transatlantic route. Even if Cunard was dismembered, QM2 would be retained as either the sole ship of the line, or in tandem with some watered down fleet mate...

Makes one miss the golden early 2000s years of QE2, QM2 and Caronia! That was truly something special.