QE2 Asbestos and Fireproofing

[richc1977]

Reading that article it's a very sad legacy.

[lshaw16]

I have just caught up with this I do apologise!  Thanks very much to everyone for their responses.

It is the sad legacy that I am researching.  The figures for mesothelioma was 512 per million of the population. That is set to rise over the next 20 years. The high figures have been attributed to the high concentration of the labour force working in the Clydebank shipyards and the presence of the Turner Asbestos Cement factory, Kilbowie.  Due to the large amount of asbestos used in the initial construction of the QE2, it makes for a very good case study.  However, we must remember that asbestos was a very effective fire safety product and had been used extensively in shipbuilding from the 19th century.  Some historians have even gone as far to say that it saved more lives than what it has taken.  I have found some good news in terms of this and I will be happy to report once the research is completed. 

[Rob Lightbody]

See attached - thought it was interesting!

[dundurn]

I've registered purely to add my 2 penn'orth to this thread. Between 1969 and 1972 I worked for a timber importer in Scotland, mainly dealing in playwood sales. Two of my colleagues had associations with the Clyde; one had worked for Barclay Curle while the other's father had worked for John Brown. The topic of the 1968 Canaries Cruise came up one day and the following information emerged. How accurate this was I have no way of knowing but the subject of Marinite was brought up with no prompting by me and both of them seemed to be fully aware of the situation.

Their view was that Cunard had taken the decision to operate the QE2 both as a transatlantic liner in the old style and as a cruise ship operating in the Caribbean. In the latter role she would be operating from American ports and as a result had to comply with American regulations. It was this latter requirement that led to the extensive use of Marinite.
Stage 2 of their story was that progress on the fitting out was behind schedule. One of the principal reasons was that every time a Marinite panel was breached the waste had to be bagged and disposed of offship. The Health & Safety (not called that in those days, but the effect was the same) were seen as a nuisance rather than the necessary safeguard they were.
Stage 3 was the relatively sudden departure on the 1968 Canaries Cruise. This had the happy result that while many of the workers went along and completed the fitting out, most if not all of the safety people were left behind. Unbagged waste was simply tossed overboard.

Is I say, I don't know this first hand, but it may explain some of the historyy.

[Rod]

As mentioned before, marinite was used everywhere and very littlle to no warning was give to the early ships staff regarding safety. Theoretically, if you drilled a hole in the marinite to say, put up a picture, it released asbestos. The elevator shafts were coated on the inside with blue asbestos, which at the time was one of the most dangerous forms. These quite often got damaged for one reason or another and they just coated them in latex paint to seal them. Brakes drums...(anyone know where they are?) on the ship to begin with all had asbestos break pads that were relined by ships staff with no protection.
During the 86 refit, when they did renos where asbestos was present, they sealed it off then dumped the bags on an open container on the dock?
However, for those of you that live in older houses in the US......alot of your pipes are covered TOTALLY in asbestos!

[Isabelle Prondzynski]

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/now-i-just-have-to-live-with-the-condition-1.1128897?localLinksEnabled=false

‘Now I just have to live with the condition’
BRIAN DONNELLY and DAVID LEASK case study

Share    13 Oct 2011

TO the world, the ocean-going liner the QE2 is a symbol of the Clyde’s great shipbuilding heyday.

But for John Ferguson, one of the legions of men who worked on her construction, she is a grim reminder of how he acquired the pleural plaques affecting his lungs.

Mr Ferguson, of Clydebank, said: “When I started working on the QE2 in 1965 asbestos was one of the main materials we worked with.
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You will probably have to register (for free) to read the rest of the article.

[Rod]

If we knew then what we know now!

[pete cain]

Just come across this post & feel compelled to contribute, as an apprentice electrician  of Vickers Armstrong in 1966 we used to tie up bundles of cables to a deckhead (these having been run so far but no further because of construction constraints) with asbestos rope, our journeymen would make cat'o'nine tails with said stuff & hit us if we were considered to be a wee bit too cheeky, I remember also serving on submarines, & contractors would come into the shipyard to lag steampipes with chickenwire & (wet)asbestos, it was omnipressent in thse days, Cammel laird & many others would've used this stuff.  Quite a few journeymen whom I knew have died after suffering Asbestosis, (many more in Africa where it is/was mined have suffered the same fate). The Railway industry also felt its effects. Many wives of workers suffered Asbestosis & died purely  for washing their husbands overalls & breathing in the fibres whilst doing so! Thank God I'm still here , inspite of the awfull stuff

[Lynda Bradford]

This subject was in the news again last week when the Supreme Court backed the right to claim for compensation from insurance companies.  The House of Lords had ruled five years ago that victims could not claim but the Scottish Government has always backed the right to claim by victims

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-15264262

[Twynkle]

BBC news.
Today it was agreed that for anyone who has been diagnosed with asbestosis related cancer (mesothelioma), instead of being able to claim compensation from the time of diagnosis - they can now claim from the time they were first exposed to asbestos - i.e. 40 years earlier
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-17535887

[Wegeners]

Hi,

Does anyone know anything about a laminated fire retardant wood composite board used for shipbuilding that had asbestos in it that was called MARINITE? I've been told it could be called 'Marinite' but did also have other names too. It's described as like a grey-ish plasterboard type board that was laminated and perhaps used as wall partitioning or to line walls. Does anyone know where this was produced? This board was also used by Cammell Laird shipbuilders, Liverpool but was laminated, etc by a company in Manchester. Is it true that when they banned the use of asbestos that this was substituted with crystalline silica (another carcinogen and highly toxic) in these wood cement boards because it has very simlar qualities?

Asbestos caused several diseases but did you know that they have linked asbestos with autoimmune diseases too? These are often as awful as cancer and can be as fatal and/or disabling and they do often treat it with chemotherapy like with cancer.

I would be grateful for any information you may have on Marinite or if you can point me in the right direction of some.

Thanks.

[Wegeners]

See attached - thought it was interesting!

Is this a document and if so where can we get a copy? thanks.

[Isabelle Prondzynski]

Thank you for your interesting question. I wonder what we shall find in relation to QE2?

It may help Forum members to understand your quest if I quote what you wrote to us when registering :

The site is fascinating. A great piece of social history.
 
This type of wood composite board (wood cement board - Marinite (it had other names too)) was also (we think) the one worked on by my Husband in the mid to late 70's and was for a contract for Cammell Laird the shipbuilders. Those working with it, including my husband were told it was a 'safe' asbestos. Having researched the whole industry and manufacture of these boards and other wood composite boards it's scary to learn that they are now made largely from 'wood' recycled from construction and demolition wastes from the demolition of old buildings, properties, etc. So the potential is that these boards, and others like them possibly containing many toxic/carcinogenic chemicals/substances long since banned will once again find their way back in to chain and therefore putting the public at risk.
 
I'm writing a book and the information will be very useful. 

Some of our members may know more about whether this material was ever used on board QE2.

[Rob Lightbody]

It has been mentioned a number of times on the forum and was apparently used extensively.

We had someone doing a thesis on this too ...

[Lynda Bradford]

Hello welcome to the Forum. As Rob has mentioned there has been quite a lot written about asbestos in various topics.

I have done some work listing all the suppliers for QE2 that had placed adverts in the Cunarders' magazine 1969.  The list is in topic board "A ship of Many Parts" 
https://www.theqe2story.com/forum/index.php/topic,2360.0.html

I remembered that Marinite was one of the suppliers so I looked out the magazine so that I could copy the full text of the advert for you.
 
This is the text in the advert for Marinite on page 64 of the Cunarders' 1969 magazine.

"Elizabethan enterprise .....yesterday and today (photo of Elizabethan Galleon)

Over 350 years separate this splendid Elizabethan Galleon from our own superb Queen Elizabeth 2- each a magnificent testimony to a momentous shipbuilding era.  New concepts, new needs, and new materials have now changed the picture beyond recognition.  Important among the indispensable materials of modern ship construction is non-combustable Marinite.  Already used in over 1500 ships, it was a natural choice for the Queen Elizabeth 2 where it makes a major contribution to safety as built in fire protection in the form of bulkheads, linings, ceilings and doors throughout accommodation spaces and public rooms. "

Marinite
Non-combustible sheet  Made in Scotland

Marinite Ltd., Petershill Rd., Springburn, Glasgow, N1

I hope this helps with your research and I hope you keep us informed.