Author Topic: Class system on QE2  (Read 18571 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Twynkle

Re: Class system on QE2
« Reply #15 on: Sep 07, 2009, 07:50 PM »

Thank you.  This is interesting - it makes good reading! 
There an excellent search 'index' as well.

No-one's yet mentioned (above) what might have happened to the First Class passengers,
were they to be found 'Out of Bounds', i.e in the second class areas.
Perhaps though,  this was never the case - as  'Some wanted a retractable roof over the First and Cabin Class outdoor swimming pools as  “both pools are overlooked by passengers of a lower class which could cause dissatisfaction”.

« Last Edit: Sep 07, 2009, 08:25 PM by Twynkle »

Offline Malcolm

Re: Class system on QE2
« Reply #16 on: Sep 07, 2009, 08:24 PM »
what might have happened to the First Class passengers, were they to be found 'Out of Bounds', i.e in the second class areas!

That's an interesting point :) Were the second class areas our of bounds to first class passengers or was the whole ship available to them?  ???

Offline Twynkle

Re: Class system on QE2
« Reply #17 on: Sep 07, 2009, 09:53 PM »


About this class thing, Liverpool, the Sixties and QE2!

At the time when QE2 was conceived, Liverpool was rife with Class consciousness
It was particularly pervasive within the shipping industry, many families were inter-related and the
division between Upper and Lower left little in the Middle.

Then came the Beatle thing - they were derided by the Upper class.
The Beatles would certainly have been able to choose the First Class aboard QE2
So the Upper class tried to climb higher
Do you think this might have been a reason for the creation of the Queen's Grill?

(please do say if you think I'm off limits here!)

Offline Chris

Re: Class system on QE2
« Reply #18 on: Sep 09, 2009, 10:31 AM »
What a fantastic document Michael.

It is also very interesting to see Q4's 'deck names' and how they differed so from those we know as being QE2's.
🎥 Check out my QE2 & Cruise Ship Videos: https://www.youtube.com/chrisframeofficial/

RyanZ

  • Guest
Re: Class system on QE2
« Reply #19 on: Sep 13, 2009, 03:22 AM »
Such a great study! Thank you for putting so much time into creating such a great piece of knowledge.  By any chance are there original deck plans from the 3-class Q4 floating around? 

Offline izabera

Re: Class system on QE2
« Reply #20 on: Sep 14, 2009, 04:18 PM »
Wonderful study, Michael, very valuable for all who love the QE2. I had never realised how much the QE2 had been changed, even right at the start of her career.

The world 40 years ago was very different from the world we know today... and your study shows that so clearly...

Online Isabelle Prondzynski

Re: Class system on QE2
« Reply #21 on: Oct 21, 2009, 11:05 PM »
On Liners' List, 20 0ctober 2009, Doug Newman writes :

On QE2 I think it was essential to have a proper deck plan (showing the configuration of each cabin) or else you really had no idea what you were getting. Later QE2 deck plans just showed all these little zigzag shapes in various colors, which made absolutely no sense at all unless you had a "real" deck plan or you were a total obsessive nerd like me and had practically memorized the whole bloody thing.

One interesting thing though is that even at the end no cabin category ever contained both former first-class and tourist-class cabins, with one exception, category MI, the sole category of inside singles. Otherwise, C2 and above (and CA, the Caronia single grade) was ex-first-class, while C3 and below was ex-tourist-class.

Up until some point in the mid-1990s the first/tourist (er, make that "Transatlantic Class") divide was actually maintained so that what was a first-class cabin when the ship was built still was (albeit now divided up between Queens Grill/Princess Grill/Columbia, all still considered first class) and all the original tourist-class cabins were still "Transatlantic Class" and assigned to Mauretania. Siphoning off all those cabins for the Grills over the years must have created an extraordinary amount of excess space in Columbia, but then they rectified this by moving a lot of ex-tourist-class cabins to what was by now Caronia (but back in the original location of Columbia by then ... I think), which wound up creating some pretty expensive and pretty poor cabins. C5, the lowest Caronia grade, must have had the most enormous variations of any, an incredible mix of tiny cabins all the way forward on Two and Three Decks, huge ones down on unfashionable Four Deck and finally some decent cabins on Two and Three Decks aft that were neither tiny nor in undesirable locations.

In between these two basic schemes there also was, for a year or two following the 1994 refit (in the same period when the old Britannia/Tables of the World/Mauretania was Caronia, and the old Columbia was Mauretania), something inscrutable divided into "Grill Class," "Deluxe Class" (Caronia) and "Premium Class" (Mauretania) but the details of that escape me.

It is interesting though that the "official" two-class divide did not disappear until 1994. The dress code for Mauretania was, for example, totally different from the other dining rooms, never suggesting (as I recall) anything more formal than jacket and tie. That was back before Cunard any illusions that the whole ship was "luxury," a rather amusing concept if you consider whether anyone really thought some of those tiny cabins down on Five Deck were luxurious.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LinersList/message/118503

Online Chris Thompson

Re: Class system on QE2
« Reply #22 on: Oct 22, 2009, 03:47 AM »
How about the class system on the crew side?????
You had the upper class - Officers.... The working class....crew, and the staff(concessionares, entertainers etc) stuck in grey area in between. Sorry for the bitter memories but as a concessionare - casino employee I travelled between all the main Cunard ships during the late 80's to early 90's and QE2 had the worst class system of the lot. We were treated with disdain by both officers and crew, basically they were envious of the fact that we got most of the port time off duty , had no real duties concerning safety drills and had public room privaleges. Personally I would have preferred to have a drink in the crew bar away from passengers but that was what I contracted FOR!!!!!! I will add that I enjoyed my time on the QE2 despite the English Public School snobbery on one side (the only time the casino lads ever got invited to the officers Wardie was when we had a fresh batch of casino girls onboard) and the typical bloody minded up the workers attitude of the bar stewards despite how well at least some of us tipped them!!!!
CasinoChris

Offline Louis De Sousa

  • QE2 Crew member
  • Queens Grill Diner
  • *****
  • Posts: 3845
  • Total likes: 3853
  • QE2 The Greatest Ship Ever
Re: Class system on QE2
« Reply #23 on: Oct 22, 2009, 11:20 AM »

Quote
You had the upper class - Officers.... The working class....crew, and the staff(concessionares, entertainers etc) stuck in grey area in between. Sorry for the bitter memories but as a concessionare - casino employee I travelled between all the main Cunard ships during the late 80's to early 90's and QE2 had the worst class system of the lot.

Sorry Chris but i have to disagree with you on this one.Dont compare the QE2 with the other Cunard Ships.The QE2 was bigger than them all with 1000 crew from roughly 40 countries and of course there was a class system but i prefer to call it a ranking system.I think the problem was not between crew and officers,the problem was done by mostly by the staff.I once had a flirt with a casino girl ,and the casino manager then wanted me to be sacked just because i took her to the crew bar.A lot of crew and officers from the QE2 moved around those ships too,so i wonder what happened when they went to the other ships? Did the class system get worse then on those ships?


Quote
and the typical bloody minded up the workers attitude of the bar stewards despite how well at least some of us tipped them!!!!

Tipped well!!! Now thats strange,so can you tell me why the Bar Stewards didnt want to work in the Casino ?

Louis

Offline Malcolm

Re: Class system on QE2
« Reply #24 on: Oct 24, 2009, 06:50 PM »
On Liners' List, 20 0ctober 2009, Doug Newman writes :
C2 and above (and CA, the Caronia single grade) was ex-first-class, while C3 and below was ex-tourist-class.

This is not true (I missed the original post on LL or I would have corrected it there). Cabins 1104 and 1105 were both categorised as C2s however they were second class cabins. They are the only exception to Doug's statement (that I know of) and are at the point where first class changed into second class but they are old second class cabins none the less.

RyanZ

  • Guest
PDF Article on QE2 Design
« Reply #25 on: Jun 10, 2010, 09:39 PM »
A few months back, somebody attached a terrific, in-depth history on the design of the QE2, with an emphasis on the transition from a 3-class design to a 2-class one.  It was attached to a thread in a PDF, but I can't find it anywhere.  Does anyone know what I'm talking about, and if so, can you post it as I would love to read it again.  Thanks!

Online Isabelle Prondzynski

Re: PDF Article on QE2 Design
« Reply #26 on: Jun 10, 2010, 11:14 PM »
A few months back, somebody attached a terrific, in-depth history on the design of the QE2, with an emphasis on the transition from a 3-class design to a 2-class one.  It was attached to a thread in a PDF, but I can't find it anywhere.  Does anyone know what I'm talking about, and if so, can you post it as I would love to read it again.  Thanks!

Hi Ryan, as you will notice, I have moved your post, right into the thread where you will find your reply. Have a look at Flagship's contribution ( no. 8 ) above, and I think you will have found just what you were looking for  ;D  .

Offline Rod

Re: Class system on QE2
« Reply #27 on: Aug 06, 2011, 01:14 AM »
I am going to try and reply to a nearly 2 yo post from Casino Chris.
CC, I do not know when you were on board QE2, I was on  there from 1971-1989.
One of the biggest problems the Officers had in maintaining discipline was the differences in employment practices and the way they were handled by their managers.
This often led to upsets between the various "sides"
Concessiaires for instance, depending on their manager, were often seen to have a different set of rules. That made it hard for say the shop people, that had another set of rules, and the ships crew that had a third set and tighter set of rules.
You also have to remember that when QE2 came out, it was the first for MANY things, iuncluding concessionaires.
Before QE2 Cunard cintrolled everything!
Many of the crew Officders and Ratings, who had transferred from the "Old" Queens felt ticked off when people from old jobs suddenly got public room priveliges. Officers included! First ship I was on, Officers were not allowed into the public rooms at all. Did Cunard handle the transition well...NO!

Offline Rod

Re: Class system on QE2
« Reply #28 on: Aug 06, 2011, 01:21 AM »
As far as the Officers went, towards the latter years I was on there...Suddenly Cunard turns round and says: OBTW ALL the concessionaires will be eating in the Wardroom...there where a lot of angry heads as you can imagine. It took many years, over a hundred for Officers apart from the Captain to get the respect you deserve.....To be honest, this was first shown on the QE2. Then they say: oh all these people that do not work your hours get more money than you and do not have to obey you...they are going to use the Wardroom....think that might breed some animosity?
Was there and knew alot of the casino staff, they didnt like it either!....food was better in the Brittania too.
QE2 was in many ways a transition ship. A learning ship to bring Cunard into the 20th century!

Offline Alan Snelson

  • Global Moderator
  • Queens Grill Diner
  • *****
  • Posts: 1115
  • Total likes: 839
  • Ships Photographer '78 - '82
Re: Class system on QE2
« Reply #29 on: Jun 01, 2013, 11:13 AM »
Suddenly Cunard turns round and says: OBTW ALL the concessionaires will be eating in the Wardroom...

Thats interesting to read Rod, I am assuming that by ALL concessionaires you mean the photographers too. That is something I have never heard about before. When did that happen?

It is interesting reading the above comments, especially regarding the Casino. From my experience a lot of it depended on the Casino manager, some would not let their staff mix openly with other departments at all, whilst others were more relaxed about it. I think the competition for a place on board was very stiff and they were all on very strict contracts. On top of this the Casino was off limits to 99.9% of the officers and crew so there were almost bound to be issues.

During my time the Casino and the Photographers were the only concessionaires where all team members had deck privileges. With the shop staff and the Steiner staff only the managers were allowed these privileges.
« Last Edit: Jun 01, 2013, 11:50 AM by Alan Snelson »
Don't just be part of her past, be part of her history!