Is the QE2 a paradox?

[Pat Curry]

Nakheel have made no secret of the changes they plan to make on QE2 to convert her to the hotel of their dreams.  She will never be the same.

But is she the same ship that was launched on the Clyde all those years ago?

Or is she already a Theseus paradox?

I love Fools and Horses and a favourite episode is the one where road sweeper Trigger is awarded a medal for using the same broom for 20 years.  He proudly states that it has had 17 new heads and 14 handles.  Philosophers call this particular phenomenon a Theseus paradox. It refers to an object which has had all or some of its component parts replaced. Is it the same object?  Some say it is, others saying it is not.  To save you Googling like I did, Theseus was the mythical ancient Greek who founded Athens.  When his maritime travels ended, the Athenians decided to preserve his ship.  They did so for several centuries during which it required systematic replacement of rotting parts.  How much remained of the original ship?  It was a myth in any case.  But it focuses our minds on the QE2.

The experts on the forum will know just how much change QE2 has undergone in her long lifetime.
Some changes have been fundamental, such as new engines, the addition of extra cabins, major changes to public rooms and to bridge technology. Some changes result from repairs. Most changes are minor. I suspect changes to interior decor, furniture, carpets and fittings are too many to record.  Surely livery changes, (the funnel for example) qualify.  But do daily repaints?  What exactly is defined as a change?  For example, is the Queen’s lounge decorated for Halloween’s night a change? Is it part of the paradox?  

I would love to know just how much of the original QE2 actually exists.  

I am not rivet counting, but can anyone enlighten me and this forum?

[Rob Lightbody]

Very interesting! Typing on my phone so will be brief, but if a passenger on the maiden voyage was transported forward in time to join me in Dubai in April 2011, they'd find a huge amount of her familiar, even if not identical. All the non penthouse cabins for a start, the basic layout of almost all the public rooms and most of the outdoor decks, the exterior appearance of the ship, the lovely stairwells, The list goes on. She's still the same ship.

[Pat Curry]

She's still the same ship.

This is interesting.  Good reasons Rob. But the paradox remains.   Any votes the other way? 

[skilly56]

It's not at all like Grandad's axe!

Doesn't matter (well, to a certain extent anyway) what changes they do INSIDE, it's still the same, original, largely unmolested hull on the outside, which is mainly what everyone looks at when deciding whether something is original or not.

This from an engineer (who'se usually down below looking at all the bits in the bowels of the ship, and has just surfaced for a cuppa!)

Cheers
Skilly
(off Fremantle)

[Twynkle]

This is interesting.  Good reasons Rob. But the paradox remains.   Any votes the other way? 

Hey Pat!
What thoughts! Thank you...it's great to do philosophy on the forum!

However, does the theseus's stuff really relate QE2...? ?
You could make a case for humans, perhaps - firstly names, then hair things, face lifts, make up, weight gain / loss, hip replacements and new hearts, knees, lungs, kidneys, corneas. skin grafts etc,  - and they can even change their minds too!
QE2 hasn't changed her identity, has she?
If you see a photo of her taken in '68, specially her bow and stern, even before her superstructure was added - she looks just the same now as she did then - hull, and portholes etc
Then there's her mast, wheelhouse, Bit beneath the Bridge,  Queens Room etc, theatre, synagogue, Princess grill, stairways, alleyways, lifts, boat deck  - and perhaps, most of all, the transitional joint - and that's before we've even got started on her signage and insides below decks...
To test it - you could look at question differently - asking, has she changed unrecognisably...
Paradox? Nah - she def ain't one of them things!!

Skilly, I agree with you!
and hope you get fair winds and calm seas

Rosie

[Mauretania1907]

  Many small changes and one significant one - the change from steam engines to diesel - within the same continuum, her hull, or exterior apparance. However, addition of penthouses has changed her profile a bit, however she is a bit like a coat that has several patches, the same yet not quite. Is this a paradox -or not?

[Rod]

The basic structure remains the same....therefore she is the same ship....you can redecorate her as much as you like!