Author Topic: QE2's Stabilisers  (Read 14823 times)

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Offline Rod

Re: Stabilisers
« Reply #15 on: Aug 20, 2011, 06:47 PM »
More about QE2's stabilisers.
"and are extended for most of the time when at sea."
"...damping the roll by as much as up to 60%."
"...When 'working' hard in rough seas they do cause a small amount of drag which can reduce the ship's speed by up to 1/2 kt."
From:  Peter Moxom (1990) 'From the Bridge: Cunard's Flagship'.
Twynkle.....remember that some of these quotes came directly from Cunard PR material. Stabilizers were great though...when they worked. I remember when one stopped working an a North Atlantic and it was not in a level position. It could not be brought in because it was stuck at an angle. Caused about a 6 degree list for 2 hours until the problem was sorted out.

Offline Twynkle

Re: Stabilisers
« Reply #16 on: Aug 20, 2011, 10:09 PM »
Twynkle.....remember that some of these quotes came directly from Cunard PR material. Stabilizers were great though...when they worked. I remember when one stopped working an a North Atlantic and it was not in a level position. It could not be brought in because it was stuck at an angle. Caused about a 6 degree list for 2 hours until the problem was sorted out.

What you must have needed to do seems well nigh impossible!
Because if the fin was stuck - at the wrong angle / level, at this point, was it fully extended?
If so - then how on earth could you have fixed the 'bits' between the near end of the 'fin and its bit of the 'housing' (for want of a better word), without going outside the hull (with tools / machinery?) to get it into the level position?

Come to think of it - was it often that you, or any of the others in the Eng. Dept need to go 'outside' - and underwater to look at / fix things, when she was under way?

(Sorry - this is probably a stupid lot of questions, however the answers'll be brilliant!)
« Last Edit: Aug 20, 2011, 10:11 PM by Twynkle »

Offline Rod

Re: Stabilisers
« Reply #17 on: Aug 21, 2011, 01:46 AM »
In this case it was fixed from inside. When I first joined the ship it had its own diving club run by the senior second engineer, Stan Child. Once or twice they went over and tightened the odd bolt or two or to do inspections.

Offline Jim Bennett

QE2's Stabilizers
« Reply #18 on: Oct 15, 2014, 08:27 PM »
Thought the attached picture might be of interest. I think it's taken in around '78 or '79 in drydock in Southampton - Vosper Thorneycroft's yard.

It shows the removal of - I believe - the Starboard Aft Stabilizer vane for either repair or replacement. Quite a complex job.

The QE2 had four of these units, two on each side, intended to keep the ship steady and stop rolling when in rough weather. In practice their operation was not always straightforward. When I sailed I remember the after pair of Stabilizers were forever causing problems and tended not to be used as often as the forward pair. I think there was also a view that the drag caused by their operation adversely affected the fuel consumption by enough to make it worthwhile not using them if at all possible. It was also the case, particularly on the North Atlantic, that the weather could be too rough to allow their use and could actually result in damage to the vanes if deployed. On one occasion I can remember being part of a team trying to withdraw the Port Aft unit which had managed to get itself completely jammed in the extended position before arrival in New York. Docking Port side to would have been a big problem if we didn't manage to get the thing back in! The "box" within which the immediate vane mechanism - hydraulic rams and pistons, etc was housed within the ship's hull was right down at the lowest engine room level and the working conditions were cramped and very hot and humid.

The hydraulic pump and control gear for each unit was mounted above the vane box on the next deck above and was easily accessible, so if the fault was with the control gear it wasn't so unpleasant to work on.

The view was that the Stabilizers would keep the ship rock steady in light to moderate sea conditions, but in proper rough weather - forget it! She would regularly sail to New York from Southampton and back with the forward pair deployed as a compromise.

Offline June Ingram

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Re: QE2's Stabilizers
« Reply #19 on: Oct 15, 2014, 09:31 PM »
Thank you, Jim, very much for the information and explanation of the stabilizers and the picture.  Do you know by how much the fuel consumption was affected when two stabilizers were extended and when all four were extended ?  Thanks, June  :)
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Re: QE2's Stabilizers
« Reply #20 on: Oct 15, 2014, 09:42 PM »
Awesome information Jim, thanks!
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Offline Jim Bennett

Re: QE2's Stabilizers
« Reply #21 on: Oct 16, 2014, 10:28 AM »
I'm not sure about actual figures for the fuel consumption effects - just the principle I'm afraid. The laws of physics will dictate that if you push something like a stabilizer out into the otherwise smooth flow of water over the ship's hull it must increase the drag effect - indeed the forces generated by the vane as it moves in the flow are what causes the desired force couple which tends to stop the ship rolling. The same laws govern the fact that as you increase the ship's speed with the stabilizer out, the power required to push the vessel through the water goes up exponentially in proportion to the increase in speed.

The problem was that, in order for the stabilizer to work properly, the ship had to be going fast enough for the required effect to be generated. Often, when the sea was really rough, the ship would have to slow down so much to avoid damage from slamming into large waves that the stabilizers would not produce much correction anyway. Add this to the fact that they could only correct rolling, not pitching, and you can see that they were not always "helpful"  ;)

During the time I was on board - towards the end of the Steam era - fuel costs were becoming a huge issue for the ship's operation. I can remember being in charge of the bunkering operation on occasions where the ship was re-fuelled ready for the next main voyage and there was always a sense of real importance placed on making sure the figures balanced for what was ordered, purchased and eventually recorded as having been loaded on board.

The choice of port where the fuel would be bought was always based on cost as well as other factors such as range, etc. The usual ritual in New York, before a transatlantic, would be to load in the order of 1000 Tonnes of Bunker C - spread throughout the ship's various fuel storage tanks. This would allow the ship to make a return transatlantic to Southampton without re-fuelling because the New York price was far more favourable. A bit like us avoiding the motorway services because of the price!

Bunker C was, essentially, what was left from the process of refining oil for other fuels and products such as petrol, etc - but it was still a very expensive part of the ship's operation. It was the fuel of choice for most steamships because of the cost, but it had to be heated before it could be used and contained some pretty nasty elements as a result of concentration during the refining process.

In the late seventies the cost of fuel was starting to really bite and power plants which were designed to operate on what - at the time - was a cheap and plentiful resource were now beginning to be a bit of a cost liability. The efficiency of the old steam plant - or lack of it - was, I'm sure, one of the main reasons why the engines were replaced. This was partly due to its age - not just to the changing operating environment with respect to the design conditions.

The new diesel electric system would show large benefits in efficiency as well as flexibility. Efficiency in the design would have been far more important than when the steam plant was designed. This is not to say that they wouldn't have considered efficiency when the original plant was built, but this would have become far more of an issue as we moved into the era of spiralling energy costs.

It would still cost more to run with the stabilizers out though!

Offline skilly56

Re: QE2's Stabilizers
« Reply #22 on: Oct 16, 2014, 12:34 PM »
Hi Jim,

These photos will bring back a couple of memories then.
1. Shows the instructions for using the auxiliary control unit to operate the fin if the main controls went futt.
2. Shows the Stab Fin Aux. controls & pump
3. Shows a fin main hydraulic pump & motor.

Cheers
Skilly

Offline Jim Bennett

Re: QE2's Stabilizers
« Reply #23 on: Oct 16, 2014, 01:03 PM »
Hi Skilly,

Thanks for that - memories indeed! I have some pics somewhere of the hydraulic pump units, but I can't find them at the moment. Your pics show the main unit just as I remember them - including the instruction label. Do you know which unit is in your pic? The two I remember were for the after fins and were located just outside the TCR - the starboard one underneath the main entrance steps from the working alleyway.

I can't remember where the forward ones were situated. Probably in the TA room?

Offline June Ingram

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Re: QE2's Stabilizers
« Reply #24 on: Oct 16, 2014, 06:20 PM »
Thank you very much, Jim and Skilly, for your information and pictures.  I do appreciate very much your explanations !

June   :)
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Offline Adam Hodson

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Re: QE2's Stabilizers
« Reply #25 on: Oct 16, 2014, 06:28 PM »
All very interesting. Thanks Jim and Skilly for your photos and information.  :)
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Re: QE2's Stabilisers
« Reply #26 on: Dec 07, 2014, 11:40 AM »
yah I read that qe2 was stabilized the beyond the dreams of marine architechs , due to her stablizers and lighter weight in the upper decks, I read queen mary rolled horribly, not sure how much better she did once stablizers were added,i would assume they helped,

Offline Chris Shaftoe

Re: QE2's Stabilisers
« Reply #27 on: May 21, 2016, 11:12 PM »
The forward pair of stabilizers were indeed mounted in the TA room. I remember working with a mechanic (I was ER boy at the time) on these things. We had to drill and tap holes into the top mounting plate - which was located in a box structure and very cramped - and pump pounds and pounds of gunk into the space beneath for some ungodly reason I never discovered.

On the subject of operations, when at sea, QE2 had a lovely corkscrew roll in moderate seas, but some idiot would deploy the stabilizers and the roll got shot to hell, making the voyage more like the worst wooden roller-coaster ride in the world.

By the way - I can't find it now, but someone was asking where the main seawater intakes for the main engine condensers were on the hull. They were just aft of the rear stabilizers - I think.

Offline Jim Bennett

Re: QE2's Stabilisers
« Reply #28 on: Apr 11, 2017, 02:49 PM »
Hi Chris,

The steam plant had two sets of intakes for sea water to the condensers for the main engines. When full away at sea an intake was used which sourced water from underneath the hull, angled upwards towards the condenser - one for each engine set. These were fitted with large electric motor driven pumps which were used when the ship was travelling relatively slowly - below about 100 rpm, I think. When the speed had picked up enough the forward motion of the ship was enough to "scoop" the water up through the condenser and the motors could be switched off to save energy. (Hence the name "Scoop Pumps").

When manoeuvring, another pump was used which took its suction from much higher up on the ship's side. This was to allow water to be circulated free from mud, etc when the ship was in shallower water such as when in, or near port. These pumps were referred to as the "Side" pumps by the Engineers who ran the Turbine Room.

Part of the routine when entering or leaving port was for the Junior watchkeeping Engineer to change over from "Scoops" to "Sides" - or vice versa depending on which way you were going. This involved changing over the positions of two large isolation valves in the sea water pipework under the condenser to suit the required configuration. It had to be done smartly so as to keep a good flow of cooling water via the condenser and woe betide you if you messed it up!

The "Sides" pumps took their suction from just aft of the after stabiliser set as you correctly assume. The "Scoop" pump inlet was from the under side of the hull, but probably about in line with the stabiliser, If I recall correctly.

The "Sides" pumps were also fitted with a suction valve and chest actually inside the engine room. Whilst this might seem a bit daft at first glance, it was intended to allow the pump to be used to pump water out of the engine room in the event of a serious flooding incident! They were actually used for this purpose once to my knowledge - after the ship suffered a potentially catastrophic failure of the sea water cooling system in the T/A room on the North Atlantic. (This is, of course, another story - which I believe has references elsewhere in the postings).

Offline Clydebuilt1971

Re: QE2's Stabilisers
« Reply #29 on: Apr 12, 2017, 01:04 PM »

On the subject of operations, when at sea, QE2 had a lovely corkscrew roll in moderate seas, but some idiot would deploy the stabilizers and the roll got shot to hell, making the voyage more like the worst wooden roller-coaster ride in the world.


QM2 can have a similar motion to this in certain sea states with the fins out.

A great way of describing it Chris!!

Gav