Author Topic: QE2 Engines (diesel-electric powerplant)  (Read 101743 times)

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Online Rob Lightbody

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Re: QE2 Engines (diesel-electric powerplant)
« Reply #60 on: May 03, 2010, 10:39 PM »
Also found this (attached) - any good?
Passionate about QE2's service life for 40 years and creator of this website.  I have worked in IT for 28 years and created my personal QE2 website in 1994.

Offline skilly56

Re: QE2 Engines (diesel-electric powerplant)
« Reply #61 on: May 03, 2010, 11:13 PM »
Ta Rob.

Seeing your source has reminded me that I have all that information too - in "Rebirth of a Queen". Mind must be on other things - seagoing medical this afternoon!

Cheers
Skilly

Offline highlander0108

Re: QE2 Engines (diesel-electric powerplant)
« Reply #62 on: May 04, 2010, 02:02 AM »
Ta Rob.

Seeing your source has reminded me that I have all that information too - in "Rebirth of a Queen". Mind must be on other things - seagoing medical this afternoon!

Cheers
Skilly

Skilly, regarding your post on operating the B&W's at partial load, would it be possible to fully load one of the engines with the AC, lighting and other shipboard systems currently in use while she's tied up in Dubai?  Just curious what the ships power requirements were while in port, but obviously they would be lower without all the kitchen facilities, water, and sanitation system not in use?  Would the load be too much for one unit to be run at full load where the engine is most efficient.  I recall reading the operating instructions of the B&W engines and they state that partial loading should be done for short periods only.
"There will never be another one like her" QE2's last Master Ian McNaught
My Blog:  http://qe2-prideoftheclyde.blogspot.com/

Offline highlander0108

Re: QE2 Engines (diesel-electric powerplant)
« Reply #63 on: May 04, 2010, 02:14 AM »
Skilly, one more thing.  Is it true that having 9 engines/generators gave the engineers maximum flexibility to tailor the actual power available to the actual ship's power requirements, which meant the ship could operate as efficiently as possilble.  It seems like the current crop of ships, QM2, QV/QE included, do not have this degree of flexibility in tailoring the available power, nor do they have the cushion of having one unit down at all times for maintenance.  The engineers who designed the conversion got the powerplant reliability issue completely solved with the conversion.  If not, QE2 would not have continued to log more miles under diesel/electric power than steam.
"There will never be another one like her" QE2's last Master Ian McNaught
My Blog:  http://qe2-prideoftheclyde.blogspot.com/

Offline highlander0108

Re: QE2 Engines (diesel-electric powerplant)
« Reply #64 on: May 04, 2010, 03:36 AM »
I found this information on the MAN website and found it a facinating read.  Quoting from the MAN operating manual for the L58/64 series:

"Continuous operation in the low-load range may result in heavy internal contamination of the engine."

"In idling mode or low-load engine operation, combustion in the cylinders is not ideal.  Deposits may form in the combustion chamber which result in a higher soot emission and increase of cylinder contamination."

"In case the engine is to be operated low-load for a period of time exceeding that shown in figure 2-1, page 2-10, the engine is to be switched over to diesel oil operation beforehand."

From the chart, it appears that at a 20% low-load condition, the engine(s) can only be operated for 75 hours which would then require a "relieving operation" to run up the engine to 70% of load to basically clean out the engine.  Perhaps some of the smoke we see at times is this operation taking place or perhaps the start up of another engine in rotation.

We know that at least one engine is in continuous operation.  To bring another engine only requires some time, therefore, at some point, there will be two engines in operation, including getting the engine into standby status.  I wonder if they have switched the engines over to run on diesel oil (not the HFO-heavy fuel oil or perhaps they have switched out the fuel nozzles for partial load operations, which is additionallly mentioned in the operation manual.  I trust that the outfit running the ship at this time is taking the best care of the machinery, with her potential future sailing unknown.
"There will never be another one like her" QE2's last Master Ian McNaught
My Blog:  http://qe2-prideoftheclyde.blogspot.com/

Offline skilly56

Re: QE2 Engines (diesel-electric powerplant)
« Reply #65 on: May 04, 2010, 05:17 AM »
Hullo Ken,

Your post about having 9 engines giving maximum flexibility is very correct - most shipowners would love to have the ability to maintain schedules the way QE2 did (i.e., post the cruise itinerary 18-20 months in advance and in she comes, on the stated day, and right on time as well! Impressive). The capital cost to install the D/E system was huge, although I bet it paid for itself handsomely, many times over since. QM2 does have good schedule flexibilty, BUT, if she loses one DG, then they have to power up a GT to maintain the schedule, and that costs a lot more than just starting another DG as QE2 would do.

Regarding present generator loadings on QE2, I would be very surprised if the DG that is running is at more than 50% output. If you run all sorts of current-hungry systems just to keep the electrical load up and the engine at a decent load factor, you have to consume more fuel, so the costs go up.

Recently I posted a control room photo that was taken (in June 2007 I think) when a notice was posted that divers were in the water. The ship had managed to get 2 mooring lines around the port screw when berthing in Southampton. The nylon line came away easily and caused no damage, while the other line was not nylon, and took more time to release. So, it was a normal pax-change day in Soton, but only one DG was running (Hotel), and obviously carrying all the normal loads.

Tied up alongside the wharf with no pax on board, the galleys, pantries, laundries, fresh water, gray water, black water, lube oil/fuel oil pumps & systems, heaters and purifiers, control & starting air compressors, firefighting precharge pumps & systems, stabilizer/ballast/trimming/steering gear pumps, machinery lubrication & cooling pumps, navigation systems loads, lighting, deck winches/windlasses, passenger and crew lifts etc, are all in hibernation. Sometimes it can be a real job to find enough load to test generating systems when a ship is virtually mothballed.

 I would be surprised if the engines are still running on HFO, but who knows? Maybe Dubai are not worried about the higher emissions from the incomplete combustion of the heavier fuel being consumed at light load.

When the ship was about to put to sea, (or the present owners decide to run the shafts up), at least 3 DGs have to be running to 'swing the props', as the starting current will be very high, but once the shafts are at 72 rpm, the starting current would have dropped back. Current will then rise again as pitch was applied to the propeller blades. The load control system would then successively start more generators, to enable more pitch to be applied, until reaching the point where the shaft speeds would be doubled to 144 rpm (after actually dropping some pitch off first), and then even more pitch would be applied until the desired speed was achieved. The main machinery will be suffering from all this lack of use, and no doubt unforeseen problems of various kinds will appear when someone tries to take her back to sea again. A ship is happiest when it is at sea ;D - that goes for the machinery and systems, as well as (most) of the crew and passengers!
Cheers
Skilly

Offline Twynkle

Re: QE2 Engines (diesel-electric powerplant)
« Reply #66 on: May 04, 2010, 11:03 AM »
..... A ship is happiest when it is at sea ;D - that goes for the machinery and systems, as well as (most) of the crew and passengers!
Cheers
Skilly

Hello Skilly,

What a great statement!

It would be just so good to feel the rhythm of her engines again...
Especially as understanding of their working grows and can be far better appreciated now :)
Maybe her owners care about her a great deal - and they'll be taking good note too!
Thanks so much.
Rosie

Online Isabelle Prondzynski

Re: QE2 Engines (diesel-electric powerplant)
« Reply #67 on: May 14, 2010, 08:42 PM »
Praise for the new engines in a 1988 article posted by Myles (Cunardqueen) :

https://www.theqe2story.com/forum/index.php/topic,1473.msg21622.html#msg21622

Being able to use reverse thrust quickly, prevented an unforeseen grounding in Cowes!

Offline Twynkle

Re: QE2 Engines (diesel-electric powerplant)
« Reply #68 on: May 17, 2010, 07:03 PM »
Maybe they were switched off   lol

By the way just how do you start the engines.. in laymans terms.. push a button and off they go?

Exactly the same question was in my mind!
When QE2 was running on say less than all her 9 engines - would those that were 'off' (/ being serviced?), then need to be started up in the same was as they would be following time in dry dock?
How long does it take to get an engine running?

And after time in dry dock, are sea-trials for testing the engines?  (amongst other things!)

Please - could someone explain 'cold iron' - and what it means?!
Many thanks,
Rosie,

Offline skilly56

Re: QE2 Engines (diesel-electric powerplant)
« Reply #69 on: May 17, 2010, 11:54 PM »
Starting is via compressed air.

Every cylinder head has an air start valve which is connected to a rotary air distributor. When the start signal is given a solenoid opens the valve from the air start bottles, which then passes air to the rotary distributor which is mounted on the end of a camshaft so as to keep the air timing correct. A timed blast of high pressure air is then admitted to each cylinder in turn, in the same sequence as the cylinder firing order. This blast pushes the piston down and starts the crankshaft rotation. As each consecutive cylinder adds it's 'bob worth' the crank rotates faster and faster. When the engine is rotating fast enough, the air start is deactivated and the injection of fuel is started (having starting air and fuel on at the same time can lead to unrestrained self-dismantling of the engine!). The engine will then gradually run up to speed.

Skilly
(Thought I had already answered this question - must have pushed the wrong button! ???

Online Isabelle Prondzynski

Re: QE2 Engines (diesel-electric powerplant)
« Reply #70 on: May 18, 2010, 07:33 AM »
(Thought I had already answered this question - must have pushed the wrong button! ???

Rosie asked a very similar question in two different threads...

Offline Twynkle

Re: QE2 Engines (diesel-electric powerplant)
« Reply #71 on: May 18, 2010, 07:47 AM »


Hello
I am sorry, Skilly
In trying to be of help, it clearly wasn't experienced as such!
Rosie asked a very similar question in two different threads...
In fact, it was the same question, in the first place asked on this topic, with the quote from Myles, cross referenced on the Engine memories thread!
Not that I'm feeling defensive, you understand!! ;)
Rosie

Offline skilly56

Re: QE2 Engines (diesel-electric powerplant)
« Reply #72 on: May 18, 2010, 12:37 PM »
Just gotta laugh ;D

When I tell my wife something, she sometimes says "You've already told me that"!

Must be the age thing, aye.

Cheers
Skilly

Offline skilly56

Re: QE2 Engines (diesel-electric powerplant)
« Reply #73 on: May 19, 2010, 01:35 AM »
OK,

This section is headed "Diesel-Electric Powerplant" but I have not yet seen any photos of the prop motors in here. It's time to correct this situation, so I have shrunk & doctored some photos to give people an idea of the size of the motors.

After the prop motors I will continue on to some engine room shots, shaft tunnels, (when I have a minute to spare), then Aux machinery room.

No. 1  Taken at mid-height of propulsion motor, with an access ladder on the left - so, looking sideways across the ship.

No. 2   Showing the motor casing on the left, with one of the 8 motor cooling fans shown.

No. 3   One level up from the first photos, showing more of the prop motor cooling fans. The sheer size of the motors means it is impossible to take one photograph showing the complete unit.

No. 4   Showing one of the main thrust bearings which are located on the propeller shaft, aft of the prop motor- these absorb the thrust from the propellers and transfer this force into the structure of the ship. The bearings are oil lubricated and water cooled.

No. 5   Another part view of a propulsion motor, with the shaft exiting from the mid-height of the casing on the right.

Cheers
Skilly

« Last Edit: May 19, 2010, 01:57 AM by skilly56 »

Offline skilly56

Re: QE2 Engines (diesel-electric powerplant)
« Reply #74 on: May 19, 2010, 04:10 AM »
Some of my engine room photos:

No. 1.3488   In the fwd E.R, looking across the cylinder tops. The 3 large metallic casings on the right are the engine exhaust uptakes coming out of the turbochargers and heading up toward the funnel casing.

No.2.3489    Looking across the engine tops from port to stbd. The cream-coloured hinged lids hide the valve rocker gear.

No.3.3490    Fuel oil purifiers - the bowls in these items spin at almost 9,000 rpm to spin any solids out of the fuel. Fully automatic cleaning - not like the old days when you had to strip them and clean them every day.

No. 4.3491   Various items of machinery required to operate the engines, make fresh water, purify fluids, pumps, local controls, etc.

No. 5.3492   Spare cylinder liner for a main engine - this fits inside the entablature (cylinder block) and the piston reciprocates up and down inside. Bore size is 580 mm diameter.