QE2 Story Forum
The QE2's Story (in-service) => The QE2 herself => Features of the QE2 => Topic started by: Andrew Collier on Apr 02, 2009, 12:13 PM
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Hi Everybody,
As we all know QE2's colours changed subtly several times throughout its life, more so probally than most of us realised just at a casual glance.
There was a website called debrisfield which used to have an amazing colour changes table on it, charting all the different changes to everypart of the ship, it was quite details and very useful.
Sadly debrisfield seems to have closed down, and I never downloaded the colour chart :-(
Don't suppose anyone did?
If not, I'm gonna try put together my own, if it comes to that might have to call on folks to help ;-)
Cheers 8)
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The debrisfield website moved - sometime in 2007, as far as I can recall. Though I can't remember what the new URL is/was.
Time to do some hunting.
EDIT:
The site has been closed down due to financial problems. more info here (http://titanic-model.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=100&topic_id=28992&mesg_id=28992&listing_type=search). And there is a "shelter" forum for members of the old debrisfield website here (http://marinewerft.foren-city.de/forum,13,b939cb600d4dffe678fc18a6a320ba00,-the-shelter-for-the-debris-field-community.html). Maybe you can ask around there and see if anyone has the colour chart.
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The site has been closed down due to financial problems.
See, that's what happens when people don't click on the ads!
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The site has been closed down due to financial problems.
See, that's what happens when people don't click on the ads!
I shall have to click on ads then. I don't know what I'll do if this site gets shut down.
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Think there have been a few shades of black/blue on the hull over the years. Didn't like the grey one much (like primer) I saw an advert somewhere (Robs link?) about International paints doing the coatings 87? I worked in a shop as a Sat boy years ago selling their stuff amongst others. A chocolate Brown colour was popular at the time but an over order resulted in a few pallets spare which couldn't easily be returned and overnight the fashion changed to blue anyway. Good job Cunard didn't take up the offer of the discounted spares.
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Didn't like the grey one much (like primer)
I'm with you on that one Kev! It was hardly practical as showed up every rust streak and impact mark from tugs/moorings and soon started wearing off, showing the traditional dark hull colour beneath. Thankfully it was shortlived and replaced after just a year or so but on a positive note, at least she sported the famous Cunard red and black funnel colours for the first time.
I also hated the speedstripe of the mid to late 90s (very boy racer), although the addition of the Golden Lion above the CUNARD name softened things slightly and who can forget the blue anti foul / boot-topping?
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There was a website called debrisfield which used to have an amazing colour changes table on it, charting all the different changes to everypart of the ship, it was quite details and very useful.
Sadly debrisfield seems to have closed down, and I never downloaded the colour chart :-(
I know exactly the chart you refer too. I also never downloaded it and have been kicking myself ever since. The most subtle changes were the Cunard orange to Cunard red boot topping. Cunard red is the color of the stack and boot topping today. The original boot topping was the original Cunard orange like QM's smoke stack color but much more durable than Britannia's buttermilk paint. This quote is taken from the queenmary.com site:
"The "Cunard Red" color has an interesting history. In the 1830s, Robert Napier, a Scottish shipping engineer who improved and developed the steamships that would become the first of the Cunard line, was faced with a dilemma. The heat in the smokestacks reached such high temperatures that conventional paints of the day would bubble and peal off. The painters developed a clever solution. A mixture of bright ochre and buttermilk was applied. With the heat of the smokestacks, the paint mixture literally "cooked" onto the stacks and stayed put. The resulting orange/red color, accented with a broad black band at the top of each stack and black lines on the flanges, was to become Napier's trademark and, later, the identifying mark of all Cunard liners. The tradition remained, even though paint manufacturers had discovered a way to delete the buttermilk from the formula long before the Queen Mary was launched!"
Hated the blue boot topping even more than the pebble gray hull...but I would still sail on her in any of her color configurations.
If anyone finds the chart, be sure to post it here!!!
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Hated the blue boot topping even more than the pebble gray hull...but I would still sail on her in any of her color configurations.
Fair point Bob and like you, I would be very happy just to have the opportunity to sail on her once more whatever colour she was!
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Thought you'd like this little retrospective:
Originally:
(http://www.shipsandcruises.com/media/new_ships/QE2old.jpg)
Post Falklands:
(http://www.simplonpc.co.uk/CunardJPEGs/QE206_C66.jpg)
Back to Normal:
(http://www.simplonpc.co.uk/QE2/QE2-101_red_steam_IOW.jpg)
New Funnel:
(http://www.simplonpc.co.uk/CunardJPEGs/QE201_081.jpg)
Royal Blue with Speed Stripe:
(http://www.simplonpc.co.uk/CunardJPEGs/QE207_D78.jpg)
Final Appearance:
(http://chriscunard.com/qe2-35.jpg)
See more at the brilliant Simplon Post Card Website here: http://www.simplonpc.co.uk/ (http://www.simplonpc.co.uk/)
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Can I just say that in those photos Chris just posted, she looks absolutely stupendous in every single photo.
Thats when she looks her best - at speed at sea - in her element - completely sexy - sleek - sporty- glamorous.
I have to say that despite having a spcial affinity with the fat funnel (having been to the shipyard just after it was fitted), I now much, much prefer the original look. I think her 1983?-1986 look is my favourite of all.
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I'm the opposite there Rob - I think QE2 from 1987 onwards and especially 1999 - 2008 was in her best appearance. The fat funnel with completed Signal and Sun decks IMO balanced her profile wonderfully, giving her absolute power while still retaining those graceful lines and speedy look.
I always feel she looked somewhat awkward between 1972 - 1986 with the incomplete penthouse accommodation... but that said she was still the best looking ship then too :)
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I'm so torn, I think I just have to conclude that I love the ship in virtually all its phases, I even loved the magrodome and the alpha and beta launches!
have often thought she was at her best either after the 1983 refit or the 1987 one, fact is, she was great all the time from launch till 1994, and then again after the speed stripe was removed until now! The speed stripe, blue hull, lion above the word Cunard and gold line instead of white above the boot topping where the only features I really objected too!
Not a fan of the lion crest under the bridge, but its small enough not to be an issue, unlike almost everyone else it seems, I didn't dislike the blue boot topping!
What a ship.
I have searched high and low for the colour changes table, and failed, so this afternoon I am going to start making my own.
Will keep you all posted as to progress, am armed with many books and website to help, but might have to come begging for help!
Cheers 8)
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Interesting history on the funnel painting Bob-a novel way of stove enamelling!
Fantastic group of photos Chris
I will always love the original form (Concorde of the seas) and thin funnel best (white first then red) After that in her final form I guess as thats when I last saw her
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She truly was revolutionary at her birth and is now a standard by which all others are measured.
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Ok, so the basic table is now drawn up. and most of the colour changed marked, all the major ones, and a few minors, still more to go.
Am adding the the table the dates of the changes, not jsut the year as on the previous table I saw.
At this stage have a couple of queries:
1, Regarding the blue anti fouling and bottom paint, it was applied at the request of the Admiralty for experiemental purposes in November 1978, blue was the only colour of this new pain available.
The boot topping section was repainted red as soon as suitable red paint became available a few months later, but I havnt been able to teel exactly when, am assuming from photos late 1979?
The bottom paint remain blue for a while longer, several years, but I cannot find out when it was reverted to its traditional red/brown colour.
Any ideas?
2, The small section of deck outside forward, which would have originally been accessed from the lookout, was built with teak decking, anyone know when this was removed? Am wondering if in Oct/Nov 1972 when the lookout was removed and the galley and its forward extension built out into this area?
Thats all for now....
Cheers 8)
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Andy,
This matrix may help you a bit on the blue paint and stack colors.
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/vmorley/QE2data.htm (http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/vmorley/QE2data.htm)
As far as the teak decking on Upper Deck forward being removed, I can only guess that it was removed when the galley extension was built. Logically speaking, the fire hazard presented by the decking during welding operations would necessitate it's removal and I can't see them only removing part of it or laying it back down. Will look at my photos to see if there is anything there.
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The QE2 Dating Guide - Fantastic! - Love it!!
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The most subtle changes were the Cunard orange to Cunard red boot topping. Cunard red is the color of the stack and boot topping today. The original boot topping was the original Cunard orange like QM's smoke stack color but much more durable than Britannia's buttermilk paint.
I had different understanding about "Cunard Red". I had read that "Cunard Red" was alway the reddish-orange color that resulted from the buttermilk ochre mixture that was applied to early Cunarders. In later years it was created by paint (without buttermilk) and appeared on the funnels of QM and QE (among all Cunarders) and then for QE2 originally only in the scoop of funnel (and later on the main part of QE2's funnel). The boot of QE2 always appeared "true-red" to me and the funnel "Cunard Red". I didnt' think they were the same value. I also heard (but don't know this to be true for sure) that color of the funnels on QM in long beach were not the correct "Cunard Red" for a number of years until very recently. And I believe this was because she wasn't owned by Cunard any longer and they didn't have the exact formula to make the red-orange color. I think recently they were repaint Cunard Red (red-orange).
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Scott,
I heard the same thing about QM and I believe it is true. I know the QM funnels were painted within the last 2 years and they were supposed to return to the original color although I have not been up there recently to see for myself. A few times I've been up there, the paint was just faded due to improper upkeep and the color was hard to determine.
As far as the QE2 colors go, Cunard red is Cunard red and that color is the red-orange color created in the buttermilk formula. I do know that the original boot topping was more orange than today's red and that the boot topping back then did not match the Cunard red in the wind scoop which is why I call it Cunard orange. Not sure all the ins and out s of the changing paint shades and would love to come across the color chart that used to be posted on thedebrisfield.com again. That chart difinitively showed the color variations side by side. Wishing Andy success.
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Going off-topic myself here... but QM's funnels were recently repainted, for the first time in a LONG time.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3571/3287078708_703a1da9ae.jpg?v=0)
Great shot here - https://www.flickr.com/photos/lightandimages/3354109371/
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3351/3228287986_62188886a2.jpg?v=0)
Read this - apparently they matched the colour with a paint chip from the 1907 Mauretania!
https://www.flickr.com/photos/40368089@N00/3088007463/
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3100/3088007463_677495f330.jpg?v=0)
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A great collection there Chris. Re the funnel debate, my earliest memories are of the original white & black stovepipe version and when I saw the first images of the newer fatter design, I wasn't sure tbh. This was such a radical change, not unlike changing the nose or delta wing on Concorde. However, I soon grew accustomed to it and in retrospect, the slimline version now (to me at least), doesn't look right. That said, it's a personal thing but while the latter version gets my vote, they are both synonymous with the greatest ship I have ever known or likely to!
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Wasn't the white and black one just too cool - and a bit skinny?
The red and black is more traditional...and it's easier to see!
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I always think that when she had her new funnel - she was growing up from being the teenager into a beautiful lady.... and gaining those few extra pounds made her even more elegant......
Though I will be honest ,I did like the Cunard lion in gold they added above the Cunard lettering ( if only it was minus the blue speed stripe) that did look smart - made her look very regal
However does any one remeber when Tragalgar House cheekily put their house flag emblem on her stern superstructure - just before the Lido club????/magradome or was it post magradome - ???
Ne way what ever form she took over her life from the non-traditional whitefunnel - and new kitchens - she's a pure head turner!!!
cheers
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Folks - the Cunard funnel colours have changed over the years!!!
In fact I believe that the Queen Mary was the first Liner to bare the Cunard Orange/Red - This was due to the fact that White star merged with Cunard in 1934 - hence why the QM was able to re-start building , as the government enforced this merger, as the ailing White Star Line was on her last legs (last Liner Georgic - which sailed under Cunard White Star in her White star livery)
I believe this is when the funnels became this colour as it was a mix of Cunard and White Star colours (white star - buff yellowish - Cunard - red)
Cheers
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I don't really mean to be the voice of decent here but what I have read about "Cunard Red" has been very clear that it has been the same "red-orange" since the buttermilk/ochre mixture was applied to the original Cunarders in the 1800s.
After the merger of Cunard and White Star the Majestic retained its White Star livery (yellow funnel and stripe near the top of black hull) for the remainder of her career. And the traditional Cunard Red (aka red-orange) was applied to the Cunard-White Star's new super-liners (QM and QE) as it had been to all previous Cunarders.
The notable exception was QE2 who only had this color applied to the inside of funnel scoop until later in life (as we all know).
s
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Scott - my understanding is that you are indeed correct. The colour was due to the mixture used on the funnels during the early-days. The black top was actually originally caused by this mixture becoming dirty / burnt by the heat and soot while the original 'black bands' were the connection mechanism between the funnel sections.
After the Cunard-White Star merger, the White Star liners retained their buff funnel livery. This was most notable with Britannic and Georgic which retained their unique identity long after White Star disappeared. In fact, Britannic was the last of the White Star Liners, retaining her original colours until 1960.
http://www.chriscunard.com/archives3.htm#Britannic (http://www.chriscunard.com/archives3.htm#Britannic)
http://www.chriscunard.com/archives3.htm#MV_Georgic (http://www.chriscunard.com/archives3.htm#MV_Georgic)
QE2 - as you say, was the start of an exception to the Cunard funnel colour rule. Her scoop sported the "Cunard Red" while the rest of her funnel was white & black. Similarly we saw white funnels aboard Cunard Ambassador, Adventurer and Countess until the Countess appeared in traditional livery. QE2 followed after the Falklands campaign.
Interestingly to note is I've heard that QM2 actually was painted with the wrong shade of Cunard red and only last year during her refurbishment in Hamburg was she treated to the traditional Cunard red. During my recent voyage aboard her funnel is looking magnificent in the red/orange we're all so fond of - but indeed looking back at photographs from 2004 and 2007 it does appear to be a darker shade toQE2 or those that came before her.
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Interestingly to note is I've heard that QM2 actually was painted with the wrong shade of Cunard red and only last year during her refurbishment in Hamburg was she treated to the traditional Cunard red.
An interesting post in response to what is becoming a most fascinating thread. Funny you should mention QM2's funnel makeover though. I was looking at some shots taken earlier this week, the fiirst I've seen post refit, and although the funnel looked brighter, I assumed this was because it had been repainted recently. Hadn't realised it was a different shade though.
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That is interesting about the possible wrong shade on QM2's funnel. I remember looking up at it a lot thinking something was off but couldn't put my finger on it. I did notice that at night it appeared even redder because there were red lights shining on it.
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Might the weather and sea air have had any effect on the red paint?
It certainly did on the bonnet of a red car!
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I've been thinking about how QM2 might have been painted the wrong shade of Cunard red. I've found two pics - one the maiden QM2, the other the final West bound QE2. I think a mistake was made. ::)
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QE2's funnel is just so perfect.
It's seeing images like that where the reality really hits - she's actually gone...
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I think a mistake was made. ::)
Scott - I agree that the Cunard Red went back to the original "paint". What you have produced it that Cunard made a mistake painting the QM2.
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On the Farewell to the UK cruise, Carol Marlow mentioned that the color of QM2's funnel was "off" and was due to be corrected during the November drydocking. I can't remember how the question was raised but she commented that there had been much discussion of the QM2's funnel color and it indeed was a mistake by the yard that would be corrected.
KenM
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On the Farewell to the UK cruise, Carol Marlow mentioned that the color of QM2's funnel was "off" and was due to be corrected during the November drydocking.
I remember that vaguely now that you mention it. But, like you, can't remember the circumstances of the comment. I thought she gave a talk on that cruise but I've just looked quickly through the programmes and can't see it.
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On the Farewell to the UK cruise, Carol Marlow mentioned that the color of QM2's funnel was "off" and was due to be corrected during the November drydocking.
I remember that vaguely now that you mention it. But, like you, can't remember the circumstances of the comment. I thought she gave a talk on that cruise but I've just looked quickly through the programmes and can't see it.
She did a talk on the new QV and somehow got on that subject. It really was a veiled PR attempt to win over the devoted QE2 fans to try her out in the future, if you remember.
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It really was a veiled PR attempt to win over the devoted QE2 fans to try her out in the future, if you remember.
I'm afraid that, in my case, her words were wasted.
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Regarding the repainting of the funnels on the old Queen Mary in Long Beach,
here is a photo of the paint tin they were using. This was from a visit to the ship in December 2008.
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Is this colour chart any use to help with the changing colours of QE2 over the years?
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When QE2 came out there were no black stripes on the funnel. When the change was made, does anybody know how the black stripes were first put on?
QUIZ QUESTION OF THE MONTH!
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When QE2 came out there were no black stripes on the funnel. When the change was made, does anybody know how the black stripes were first put on?
QUIZ QUESTION OF THE MONTH!
Weren't the stripes made of Gaffer / aka Duct tape, and stuck oon to the red bit at certain intervals?? ;)
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Weren't the stripes made of Gaffer / aka Duct tape, and stuck oon to the red bit at certain intervals?? ;)
DING DING DING!! We have a winner! They were put on in Hong Kong one year at the mini refits we had there.
Dont know how far up the chain it went...but it was an immediate hit with all!!
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Is this colour chart any use to help with the changing colours of QE2 over the years?
Bob - can we credit the author of this please?
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Rob--I can not remember who the author of the colour chart was. I have the picture of the chart in my QE2 album which has literally thousands of pictures of the QE2 in all the different colours. It is from years ago-- but where i saved it from i just do not know. Sorry not to have been much help. I will look through my folders and if i do find it i will post it to the Forum.
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I reference the color chart website in Reply #85 on this forum page:
https://www.theqe2story.com/forum/index.php/topic,69.80.html
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Rob--I have found the site i took the picture of---please E-Mail me privatly
Just as a general note, if you're using something someone else created, whether a photo, text or a drawing, we need to reference it, just like we would expect to happen if someone was using something we created elsewhere (which has not always happened....) .
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I previously sought permission to use these, but only now realised how - enjoy! Click on any photo to tell the author how much you like them.
(http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4019/4675068572_6e9a457065.jpg) (https://www.flickr.com/photos/captainmartini/4675068572/)
QE2Outline1b(1969) (https://www.flickr.com/photos/captainmartini/4675068572/) by Captain Martini (https://www.flickr.com/people/captainmartini/), on Flickr
(http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4002/4674446101_7fd36eec6a.jpg) (https://www.flickr.com/photos/captainmartini/4674446101/)
QE2Outline2a(1973) (https://www.flickr.com/photos/captainmartini/4674446101/) by Captain Martini (https://www.flickr.com/people/captainmartini/), on Flickr
(http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4041/4675068692_256c7b3140.jpg) (https://www.flickr.com/photos/captainmartini/4675068692/)
QE2Outline3a(1977) (https://www.flickr.com/photos/captainmartini/4675068692/) by Captain Martini (https://www.flickr.com/people/captainmartini/), on Flickr
(http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4001/4674446193_11c023f7cd.jpg) (https://www.flickr.com/photos/captainmartini/4674446193/)
QE2Outline3b(1979-80) (https://www.flickr.com/photos/captainmartini/4674446193/) by Captain Martini (https://www.flickr.com/people/captainmartini/), on Flickr
(http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4005/4675068772_6a666c98e1.jpg) (https://www.flickr.com/photos/captainmartini/4675068772/)
QE2Outline3Falk (https://www.flickr.com/photos/captainmartini/4675068772/) by Captain Martini (https://www.flickr.com/people/captainmartini/), on Flickr
(http://farm2.staticflickr.com/1274/4674419009_e10779d02e.jpg) (https://www.flickr.com/photos/captainmartini/4674419009/)
QE2Outline4a(1982-3) (https://www.flickr.com/photos/captainmartini/4674419009/) by Captain Martini (https://www.flickr.com/people/captainmartini/), on Flickr
(http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4046/4675093996_b70e1f1627.jpg) (https://www.flickr.com/photos/captainmartini/4675093996/)
QE2Outline5d(1983) (https://www.flickr.com/photos/captainmartini/4675093996/) by Captain Martini (https://www.flickr.com/people/captainmartini/), on Flickr
(http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4040/4674471789_8afc923df1.jpg) (https://www.flickr.com/photos/captainmartini/4674471789/)
QE2Outline6b(1987) (https://www.flickr.com/photos/captainmartini/4674471789/) by Captain Martini (https://www.flickr.com/people/captainmartini/), on Flickr
(http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4041/4675094104_b33df60036.jpg) (https://www.flickr.com/photos/captainmartini/4675094104/)
QE2Outline7c(1994) (https://www.flickr.com/photos/captainmartini/4675094104/) by Captain Martini (https://www.flickr.com/people/captainmartini/), on Flickr
(http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4008/4675094342_056e8713e0.jpg) (https://www.flickr.com/photos/captainmartini/4675094342/)
QE2Outline8c(2005) (https://www.flickr.com/photos/captainmartini/4675094342/) by Captain Martini (https://www.flickr.com/people/captainmartini/), on Flickr
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There's a great photo here of QE2 in 1980 with the blue underwater coating, in Southampton Water
https://www.flickr.com/photos/johndedman/9536476375/
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In all I think there were 15 main 'faces' of QE2 and by that I mean something structural was done or a new colour was introduced to give her a different look. Her faces:
1969 - October 1972
November 1972 - October 1975
October 1975 - December 1977
Blue Boot-topping (November 1978 to November 1980)
December 1977 - May 1982
Falklands
August 1982 - June 1983
June - November 1983
December 1983 - October 1986
April 1987 - November 1994
December 1994 - December 1996
December 1996 - November 1999
December 1999 - May 2004
May 2004 - February 2005
February 2005 -
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Am I the only one who liked the pebble gray phase, even though it needed to be replaced with Dark-gray/black?
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Nope, I liked it as well. The more I see pictures of her in grey, the more I like it. It made her look different, in a good way. However she looked best in her traditional colours.
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The first time I saw QE2 in the metal was from a ferry to or from St Malo during the pale grey period. I have never been more disappointed. Here was the ship of my dreams sailing in up Southampton Water and she was a rust bucket!
However a decade later when I fulfilled a dream beyond imagination and set off across the Atlantic in her she looked pristine (to my eyes) in her slate grey.
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I have to agree that her slate grey did justice to her elegance and grace in a way that the light grey did not. To me, in her slate grey and gleaming white, she was "dressed" as a Queen should be.
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Whilst I liked the light grey phase (apart from when she turned into a 'rust bucket'), I do agree with you June when you say that the slate grey did justice to her elegance. :)
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Still doing a bit of looking around at paint colours, & although I'm commited to the shade of Orange on my model I found this interesting anecdote http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=462322. Just tab down to the Princendam topic , never heard this one, wonder if it's true, maybe Capt'n Mc Naught might tell us one of these days ;)
As usual mods please shift as necessary...........
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Great find, Pete! Maybe Ian McNaught can be asked about this if anyone goes to collect the jigsaw from him :) .
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Still doing a bit of looking around at paint colours, & although I'm commited to the shade of Orange on my model I found this interesting anecdote http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=462322. Just tab down to the Princendam topic , never heard this one, wonder if it's true, maybe Capt'n Mc Naught might tell us one of these days ;)
As usual mods please shift as necessary...........
Hi Pete - This is very interesting !! :)
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A fascinating topic that started with discussions on the changing colours of QE2 and Chris Frame posting photos (https://www.theqe2story.com/forum/index.php?topic=356.msg3703#msg3703) then the topic developing into discussions about the funnel colour not only of QE2 but QM2 as well.
What was your favourite QE2? or do you like QE2 no matter what colour or funnel?
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I love QE2 no matter what color, funnel, etc., but for me, she is best in her 1969 shape, funnel, and colours !
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Her 1969 looks were incredible and remain my favorite. However, I'll always remember the way she looked when she was sent off to Dubai. A true Queen.
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The QE2 changes to colours chart has been referenced a couple of times on the forum including by Bob C on Models of QE2 (https://www.theqe2story.com/forum/index.php/topic,69.80.html)
There had been discussions at the start of this topic of how people had been aware on the chart on a website that was no longer available.
On the admin mail box we were sent the chart image to be uploaded. The person had used the waybackmachine web site to track down the image and send to us.
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I do have to say, regardless of whatever scheme she's dressed up in, she always looks elegant!