QE2 Story Forum
Non-QE2 Area => Sea Shanties => Topic started by: andyh on Sep 08, 2010, 07:33 PM
-
Is this the future with today's design of flat bottom ships :) :) :)
-
Lets confirm this is not the Queen Elizabeth on sea sea trials testing out the new anti slip decks.... ???
Perhaps we should ask ourselves, IF its so rough why are passengers milling about the place, shouldnt the Captain have advised people to stay in the cabins?. Its the crew member l fell sorry for, Thats a pretty close escape...
I always felt safe on QE2 no matter what the weather.
To quote Samual Cunard Your ship is loaded, take her; speed is nothing, follow your own road, deliver her safe, bring her back safe - safety is all that is required.
-
Whoops, ship hits bridge...
-
And everyone laughs at us when we say we only want to sail in a true liner....
i feel this is only the tip of the iceberg....those leviathans are just accidents waiting to happen...they are fine for bobbing in calm seas though there is no guarantee of that even in the caribbean or the med,...they are def not built for ocean cruising....boy was
I glad i was not a passenger on there..i wouldnt set foot on a ship ever again...it must have been a total nightmare.
I just wish Cunard had made the 2 sisters liners or just gone for one as obviously it costs a lot more money to build a liner than a cruise ship. The Cunard name is much more worthy of a true liner than a vista class cruise ship.....
-
Oops indeed...where was this? We always used to think this would happen when we went under the Verezanno. ( not seriously!!)it was always a great moment...but QE2 always cleared it beautifully,.....
I wonder if the Captain of this vessel got his knuckles wrapped...I bet they got a big fright when this happened,
-
No, it's not QE, but it is a Carnival ship - one of the new sites said it was Pacific something or the other and it was a few months ago.
-
Captain Greybeard says its P&O's Pacific Sun, and indeed P&O have made a statement about it
http://blogs.mirror.co.uk/captain-greybeard/
-
Weren't QE2's tables, such as the Blue Pearl granite topped ones along the windows around the Golden Lion and elsewhere bolted down to prevent such destruction in heavy seas? I imagine that a loose forklift or other significant equipment, if not properly stowed and secured, could do serious damage on say a very rough crossing. Since QE2 was built for this to occur regularily, there must have been extensive provisions made and procedures in place for rough weather.
-
Strange what the media does, that this two year old story has suddenly gone "viral" with old video.
The Marine Accident Investigative Report is on line with some interesting information and photos.
Pacific Sun is small by present day standards, only 47,000 tons, and quite attractive compared to the new stuff that's out there clogging up the seas.
Hey, there's a name for RCI's new ship... "Clogging of the Seas".
-
They were very lucky that no one was seriously injured , particularly the captain who hit the deck when he realised what was happening.
-
Seems really odd that the forklift alone wasnt bolted down...here even on our wee ferry ..the lorries and cars are bolted and chained to the deck if weather is bad,,,,,years ago there was a terrible accident with a cattle float on the car deck full of sheep...it overturned and the farmer lost all of his sheep and many cars were very badly damaged., Then after the Zeebrugge disaster there were double watertight doors added to all car ferries.
-
thought this was recent .......it was 2001 In Ontario Canada
-
Yes, I remember that one..... it was one of the freighters of the Paterson Line, traversing the Welland Canal from Lake Erie to Lake Ontario, near Niagara Falls...It was one of the bridges along the canal.....This is about 2 hours away from where I live.
Linda C
-
If it's not bridges and giant waves... here is the story of a 3-metre-wide chandelier crashing down...
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10703534
-
That was a lucky escape that it happened at that time of day and not in the middle of an event.
( Can't help wondering if The Phantom of the Opera was on board, though... )
-
There was a video made once. I cannot find it anywhere. Of about 10 Officers sitting down to a meal, down 1 side of a long table. White table cloth loads of knives, forks etc. Food was in front of them and the ship was rolling. It was like the vids of a tennis match...Heads going from side to side watching their food go back and forth!
-
Yacht Collides with Tanker at Cowes
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-14435966
-
The Country File program covered the yachts practicing for the Cowes yacht race yesterday. They mentioned there is an increasing number of yachts that now take part which is a concern for safety.
I am surprised that a tanker was anywhere near the yachts. It looks like it is the yacht team's responsibility to get out of the way or be crushed.
-
The Country File program covered the yachts practicing for the Cowes yacht race yesterday. They mentioned there is an increasing number of yachts that now take part which is a concern for safety.
I am surprised that a tanker was anywhere near the yachts. It looks like it is the yacht team's responsibility to get out of the way or be crushed.
Lynda -nothing seems to be surprising in the Solent!
Captain Bates on board QE2 had become so concerned about the behaviour of the 'Sunday afternoon drivers', he wrote an article in one of the Yachting journals explaining why!
Here's an image of the sailaway, taken about half an hour after the start of the Clippers Round the World Race last Sunday.
We were onboard a small cruiser, it was a great afternoon - most people knew exactly what they were doing!
The Yorkshire making use of what little wind there was - she is crewed like most of the other nine Clippers by about 40 people, some of 70yrs, and some who have never sailed before!
In this link, you'll see the entire crew of the purple hulled Edinburgh clad in the kilt!
http://news.scotsman.com/edinburgh/Sue-Gyfords-Clipper-blog.6808317.jp
There has already been an accident, a crewmember on one of the two Australian yachts has already sustained a broken leg :(
Rosie.
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6006/6009941656_96465b592d.jpg) (https://www.flickr.com/photos/watch_keeper/6009941656/)
Clippers round the World (https://www.flickr.com/photos/watch_keeper/6009941656/)
-
11.00 hrs: A tug pulling a barge (with crane) overturned on the Thames, close to Greenwich.
Two man survived, another is missing.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-14505009
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2025271/BREAKING-NEWS-River-Thames-closed-tugboat-capsizes-crew-member-missing.html?ito=feeds-newsxml
-
During yesterday's Tropical Storm in the Philippines where over 130 lost their lives, the following has been posted with a photograph from the beach on the Filipino Seafarers Worldwide page on Facebook, together with an image,
'Dumaguete, Philippines
Rescuers hold on to a rope as they form a human chain to rescue 32 passengers and crew, including an infant, of ill-fated M/V Ever Transport III, which sank after running aground off sitio Canday-ong, barangay Calindagan, Dumaguete City at 4 a.m. Saturday 17 December 2011, after it was battered by big waves brought about by Tropical Storm Sendong.'
and
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-16229394
-
Might have been a nasty accident had the RN not intervened
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-16549042
-
Might have been a nasty accident had the RN not intervened
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-16549042
This does not look like an accident -- it was an arrest or a capture, of a Somali pirate ship.
-
Might have been a nasty accident had the RN not intervened
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-16549042
This does not look like an accident -- it was an arrest or a capture, of a Somali pirate ship.
Exactly, Isabelle!
my post refers to 'what might have been'
had the RN or others from the permanent Nato force not been on pirate-watch in the area!
Rosie
-
A very good point Isabelle; I think the reasons you suggest are a;; quite likely and I do indeed recall reading a small report in the Evening Standard once - note, a small report - saying that a Phillipine ferry had gone down and well over 5000 had been killed in that instance.
Nearly four times the toll of the Titanic, and almost totally ignored; there was even less coverage in the dailies than there was in the standard - a single small paragraph in some cases.
I think it is probably this one http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dona_Paz that I remember from that report, in which case the early estimates of 5000+ seem to have been lowered to an actual figure of 4375. But that is still incredibly high to have gone un-noticed.
This site http://www.environmentalgraffiti.com/news-shipwrecks-resulted-most-casualties-history lists a few particularly bad disasters, including the above one, and pointing out that the official toll is lower at 1,565 although it is obvious that nobody believes that figure - even if correct it is still higher than that of the Titanic.
Peter and Isabelle
The dreadful disaster in the Philippines just before Christmas was reported here:#21
The numbers of people affected were reported to be much higher nearer to Christmas.
https://www.theqe2story.com/forum/index.php/topic,2389.0.html
I'm not so sure that it (Costa Concordia) will be regarded in the fullness of time as 'more important than other catastrophes''. Although it's an eye-catching media story involving so much 'personal' as well as commercial interest, and not forgetting the considerable degree of the 'envy factor' that goes hand-in-hand with anything associated with the business of cruise-ships and shipping. These things aren't necessarily the first things that people immediately associate with cargo ships, tankers and ferries. Having said that, the Rena off NZ N Island has attracted world-wide media interest - mainly because of the potential pollution in a part of the world that is completely unspoilt.
Having links with seafarers on the Islands, I understand that it was once again, the less fortunate people that suffered most.
Cunard support an orphanage on one of the islands where Filipino children are cared for.
Historically, some of whom, as they have grown up, have chosen to work on board Cunard's ships.
Wishing I could remember it's name and where it is- sorry!
Whenever 'happenings' at sea are mentioned, this link shows more about how many are involved in disasters etc
http://seafarertimes.com/2011-12/index.php
Btw - you might find this of interest too
David Bacon's account is here.
http://dbacon.igc.org/Phils/07Seafarer.htmRosie
-
Papua New Guinea
'More than 200 people have been rescued from the sea off Papua New Guinea (PNG)'s north coast after a ferry sank with up to 350 on board, officials say'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-16848536
-
This news is updating hourly here. NZ Herald this morning says the MV Rabaul Queen sank on a voyage between Kimbe in New Britain to Lae, Papua New Guinea's second largest city with up to 360 pax and 12 crew. Ships and aircraft sent to help have rescued between 198 and 219 people ( number not exactly known as survivors are on several ships) Many were students returning to school after the summer holidays, along with trainee teachers returning to teacher college. Mr Martin Mosi, director of the PNG Disaster Centre said it was difficult to say what had caused the ship to sink - was it overloading, the weather or something to do with the ship itself.
Note: the aircraft assisted by dropping rescue equipment, including life rafts. More later.
Other news is that the crew member who was trapped on board Concordia with a broken leg has been discharged from hospital.
-
More news, approx 240 people have been rescued from Rabaul Queen sinking. Unconformed report is that several people have managed to swim to an uninhabited island and used a cell-phone to call relatives. Local ships and aircraft, including aircraft from Australia are still serching for survivors and bodies. 4 bodies have been recovered and about 100 people still unaccounted for. The ship was over 20 years old. I will get tomorrow's paper to see if there is more news and post here if there is.
-
More news, approx 240 people have been rescued from Rabaul Queen sinking. Unconformed report is that several people have managed to swim to an uninhabited island and used a cell-phone to call relatives. Local ships and aircraft, including aircraft from Australia are still serching for survivors and bodies. 4 bodies have been recovered and about 100 people still unaccounted for. The ship was over 20 years old. I will get tomorrow's paper to see if there is more news and post here if there is.
Rob, that's linked to your other question about the ability to swim!
-
Sadly, the search for survivors has now become a recovery of bodies. Ongoing searches of uninhabited isles will continue when the storm which sank the ship abates, but hopes are fading fast for the 100 people missing. Many are thought to have been trapped in the ship when she foundered. 6 bodies have been recovered. Very sad news, which I regret to have to relate.
-
MV Isle of Mull
With 177 passengers on board, the ro/ro ferry MV ISLE OF MULL was approaching Oban, Argyll, Scotland, when a 60 knot (70 mph) gust of wind rammed the ferry in to the pier.
All safe, other than the ferry.
http://maritimematters.com/2012/02/ferry-collides-with-pier/
-
Cargo ship runs aground in stormy seas off S.E Sicily
All crew rescued and safe.
(Planning on sailing in those parts in about 4 weeks time...!)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-17326138
-
Reports from passenger - not yet confirmed by BBC or AP.
Thick Fog - Silversea Shadow collides with container ship off Vietnam
CNN
http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-763640?ref=feeds/latest
http://mikeyscruiseblog.com/2012/03/19/breaking-news-silversea-shadow-collides-with-container-ship-heavy-damage/
This passenger report is being copied on several websites, and there are doubts as to it's accuracy- will post further when more information is officially confirmed.
-
We're on Silversea silver shadow cruise ship and we just collided with a Vietnamese container ship near Halong bay, Vietnam. We slammed into the side of it, ...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/19/silversea-cruise-crash-cruise-ship-collides-with-container-ship_n_1362387.html?ref=travel
-
Accident happened on 16.3.2012
There's more here, this time from lawyers!
http://www.cruiselawnews.com/2012/03/articles/collisions/silversea-silver-shadow-collides-with-container-ship/index.html
-
No news to date from any official sources.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/vietnamese/vietnam/2012/03/120319_silversea_halong_accident.shtml
From BBC Vietnam, translated by google translator:
'Unconfirmed news said the luxury cruise ship in Italy SilverSea Shadow 'minor collision' with a cargo vessel but continued to Ha Long Bay.
Information originally foreign passengers traveling on the Italian ship sent out through the form of message or twitter.
Related topics
Vietnam Transport
A notice given by SilverSea today said the 'collision' occurs on 16/3.
Meanwhile, according to some news from the passenger cruise ship sent out the reason for crash is fog.
According to this source, the Italian ship had "a cargo ship crashed into the side of Vietnam," while the website says they only SilverSea and on a train in Vietnam but did not state the nationality.
The container ship, was a passenger on board the Italian was signed by Andrew sent out the website, heavily damaged and the crew members were injured.
However, the BBC is not verifiable with the Vietnam on this ship.
5 star cruise ship with a hole in the ship collided with two seats in the cockpit and tail section.
It is known that there are many British and American tourists on board the ship in SilverSea.
The news was CNN iReport website in the United States published in the directory does not verify information sent by readers.
According to them, the ship will be checked when SilverSea on to Hong Kong.
BBC news is verified with the general manager of SilverSea Mike Bonner, based in London.
CruiseAway website in Australia is selling tickets for the tour section of SilverSea Shadow ship in Vietnam, Singapore and Hong Kong.
In Vietnam, tours in Halong Bay with destinations such as Thien Cung cave, Dau Go cave, Sung Sot cave ...
The Vietnam late in 2011 with a private firm SilverSea cancel the train to Hai Phong in 2012, with the only reason given is "severe congestion", as also reported by Dan Tri Press.
However, these sources quoted local company is Tan Hong - Viet Excursions said foreign tourists continue to buy tickets to visit Ha Long.'
-
From Martin Cox - Maritime Matters
including statement from Silverseas
http://maritimematters.com/2012/03/silver-shadow-collision/
-
A few images and video clip of the bow of Silversea Shadow
http://mikeyscruiseblog.com/2012/03/19/breaking-news-silversea-shadow-collides-with-container-ship-heavy-damage/#
http://storyful.com/stories/23175
http://edition.cnn.com/2012/03/19/travel/vietnam-ship-collision/?hpt=hp_t2
Does anyone know details of the cargo ship?
Seems that a luxury cruise ship has attracted all the publicity,
however it looks as if the cargo ship was the more seriously damaged of the two.
-
Reports of a fire swiftly extinguished in the engine room of Azamara Quest
5 Crew members injured, one seriously - from smoke inhalation.
This must have happened close to the Philippines -probably home to many of the crew....
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-17571134
-
Reports of a fire swiftly extinguished in the engine room of Azamara Quest
5 Crew members injured, one seriously - from smoke inhalation.
This must have happened close to the Philippines -probably home to many of the crew....
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-17571134
I have to say this, but honestly I am relieved for once it is not a Carnival owned ship making the headlines this time so there is no more piling on how badly Carnival is running their fleet. This is a RCI owned ship. It is disconcerting that that there has been a rash of these type events lately, though.
-
Could it just be that the media are picking up on these incidents more and therefore we are basically hearing about things that we would not have previously heard about?
Another factor - there are an awful lot more cruise ships these days that a decade ago, so statistically there will be more incidents happening even if the percentage incidence of them remains the same or even falls?
-
Could it just be that the media are picking up on these incidents more and therefore we are basically hearing about things that we would not have previously heard about?
Another factor - there are an awful lot more cruise ships these days that a decade ago, so statistically there will be more incidents happening even if the percentage incidence of them remains the same or even falls?
LIKE!
-
Also the ships are bigger and so therefore is the potential story!
-
Norwegian Star has recently bumped the Interpid Pier in New York where Concorde G-BOAD is kept:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=w3rSXyEOJrM
-
These ships appear totally uncontrollable in any sort of wind!
Can tugs push a very tall cruise ship with the wind against it!
Sent from my phone using Tapatalk.
-
Norwegian Star has recently bumped the Interpid Pier in New York where Concorde G-BOAD is kept:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=w3rSXyEOJrM
Although this was a mishap on their part, this was a fairly regular 'manouevre' done by the Queens, hence the reason the corners always had a large wooden wheel you can 'lean' against. With the very strong currents in the Hudson, it's inevitable this would happen, and isn't the first, and certainly won't be the last time this has/will happen.
-
These ships appear totally uncontrollable in any sort of wind!
Can tugs push a very tall cruise ship with the wind against it!
Sent from my phone using Tapatalk.
YES!! If you have enough tugs! Hudson was tough with the current running. Sometimes on a late departure, QE2 would move off the pier..all ahead back hard left rudder and the ship would be 1/4 mile down the river before it was straight. Cunard of course didn't want to pay for too many tugs, or they weren't available.
-
In the words of Alfred, Lord Tennyson: "Someone hath blunder'd!"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-18225878
( Also... surely there is a zero missing from the quoted price of the ship? )
-
To make it easy for you all i have now deleated my post---
-
Reports that P&O's Ventura has sustained a deep crack in one of her decks whilst experiencing a storm in the Bay of Biscay
http://www.cruisecompare.co.uk/cruise-news/2012/10/3309/P-and-O-Cruises-Ventura-Suffers-Serious-Damage-in-Bay-of-Biscay/
-
It will be interesting to hear the extent of the damage. The passengers onboard must be a worried.
-
Sounds like the ship has made a new expansion joint, most probably stress fatigue over the years at that point.
QE2 had a similar crack from April to October 86, it went right across the penthouses and down to the Boat deck, in line with the penthouse stair tower. At sea it would spread from a crack to a gap of 3 inches, when it rained the Britannia restaurant had a torrent of rain in the Port aft section. To stop the crack spreading further down you cut a large hole at the end of the crack.
-
The article says the crack runs the length of the deck, not the width, and that all the balconies on deck 14 are closed off. That suggests to me a fore to aft crack along the inside edge of the balconies on one side of that deck?
-
More on the crack in the Aluminium here:
http://www.travelweekly.co.uk/Articles/2012/10/19/41981/p.html
Sounds like the ship has made a new expansion joint, most probably stress fatigue over the years at that point.
QE2 had a similar crack from April to October 86, it went right across the penthouses and down to the Boat deck, in line with the penthouse stair tower. At sea it would spread from a crack to a gap of 3 inches, when it rained the Britannia restaurant had a torrent of rain in the Port aft section. To stop the crack spreading further down you cut a large hole at the end of the crack.
Thank you - This is interesting!
Hope that you won't mind my questions?!
Thoughts of cutting huge holes in her hull whilst she was steaming swiftly ahead are a bit difficult to imagine! Did you have to do lots of welding as she was moving, too?
If there'd been a crack lower down, there must have been a height beyond which you couldn't go because of the waterline...passengers, boat deck etc.
Do you know if this was the only time she developed a large crack that grew and shrunk so much while she was at sea - and could any large crack have been avoided if more expansion joints had been inserted into her hull at the beginning of her being constructed?
(Mods - there's more about this elsewhere - sorry as not enough hours in the day at the moment to find it LOL!!)
-
Holes in the hull at sea are not a good idea. But in the superstructure are not so bad.
Re: the Ventura, the article does say the length, but this would be unusual. Author may be confused? It is possible though.
The closer you get to the waterline, the less the liklihood of cracks as the ships movement is less the further down you go.
As to welding..on QE2 we did not have the staff that could weld aluminium plus it would be almost impossible to do it at sea. There was one recurring crack on sports deck they must have repaired 6-10 times. When it came back we would put "Denso" tape on it, paint the tape white, and we would be good to go until the next dry dock.
Possibly more expansion joints would have helped but, they produced their own headaches. Waterproofing, deck movement etc.
Another thing to remember is QE2 was aluminium from q deck up, most of the new ships are steel I believe.
-
the article does say the length, but this would be unusual. Author may be confused? It is possible though.
We need to establish this one way or another don't we? I would agree a sideways crack would be more what one would expect, particularly if the ship had been hogging and sagging in a big way, but I can also see that a lengthwise crack could develop along the balconies if there was a sudden heavy loading on the balconies of one particular deck for whatever reason.
Is deck 14 the highest one or is it lower down? I am not familiar with the ship and the online deck plans use letters rather than numbers!
-
cracks repaired --photos
http://blogs.mirror.co.uk/captain-greybeard/2012/10/ventura-back-at-sea-with-clean.html
-
It appears that the crack is indeed vertical and therefore will eventually go across the ship and not along it's length. It also appears to me that this crack has been previously welded. I may be wrong!
-
So P&O say it wasnt caused by the weather, so that means it was something else!!!!
-
So P&O say it wasnt caused by the weather, so that means it was something else!!!!
It looks downright drafty!
More seriously - is it possible to get a 'bad batch' of aluminium?
And...just wondering if it's possible for a whole 'plate' could drop off....is it moulded, or flat plates?
Sorry to be so curious - it strikes me as being under so much tension, that it would need weeks to fix it, so that the same crack wouldn't keep reoccurring...
Thanks very much
Rosie.
-
It looks downright drafty!
More seriously - is it possible to get a 'bad batch' of aluminium?
And...just wondering if it's possible for a whole 'plate' could drop off....is it moulded, or flat plates?
Sorry to be so curious - it strikes me as being under so much tension, that it would need weeks to fix it, so that the same crack wouldn't keep reoccurring...
Thanks very much
Rosie.
Yes it is possible to get a bad batch of aluminium. I am sure a sample has been sent off for testing. Looks like they are flat plates. I would imagine anothe plate would be welded over the top on the outside with strenghteners on the inside. I would also imagine the designers are sitting at their desks as we speak asking the same question!
-
Thanks so much, Rod.
S'pose that as aluminium is an alloy, it's surprising that there aren't / weren't more significant mishaps due to bad batches.
With QE2's cracks (as opposed to hull damage) - do you know whether was she ever very, very close to being rendered unfit to sail until fixed - or was this always the case if it couldn't be fixed as she was sailing?
(Not for the first time has it been good to remember the magical nature of the Forum - together with the silent and immortal words, 'Answers on a Postcard, please'!)
-
As far as I am aware..no. Others may know differently! I believe that BoT or DoT were consulted on nearly every occasion and they would make the sail/no sail decision. If you look at the outside of the ship from Q deck up you will see numerous plates that are not original. VAST majority of these are crack repairs.
All repairs whether temporary or permanent would have been DoT approved.
What most people do not realize that aluminium does not do well under constant flexing. Molecular structure does not allow for it. Bend it once OK but each time after that gets weaker and weaker until failure occurs. If the flexing is always in the same place then as ShipPro said a new expansion joint will open up.
Also remember that loading on a ship varies constantly because of things like fuel, water and food consumption. Throw in the odd wave or two.....do we ballast the fuel tanks or not and run the risk of pollution when we pump the sea water out to make ready for more fuel.
So many variables.
-
What most people do not realize that aluminium does not do well under constant flexing. Molecular structure does not allow for it. Bend it once OK but each time after that gets weaker and weaker until failure occurs. If the flexing is always in the same place then as ShipPro said a new expansion joint will open up.
Easily demonstrated with an empty fizzy drinks can and your hands; flex the can backwards and farowards... it will probably take less than five minutes before you have two halves of a can.
-
As most of us seem to be hearing far more about Hurricane Sandy than Cyclone Nilam (which occurred at the very same time), let us spare a thought for the sailors who perished off the Indian coast near Chennai :
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-20164400
-
At one time, working in the Merchant Marine was the most dangerous occupation in the world. That was in the 70's..... 1970's not 1870's. Even more dangerous than being in the military!
-
At one time, working in the Merchant Marine was the most dangerous occupation in the world. That was in the 70's..... 1970's not 1870's. Even more dangerous than being in the military!
Hi Rod
Wouldn't you say that this potentially could still be the case?
Yes - Drills, safety measures, better equipment and training etc must have made for a safer way of working, however there will always be the same risks of fire, fuel, water, wind and heat or cold, as well as human misjudgement - all of which could contribute to the maiming or death at any time?
During the disembarking of tenders a while ago, the poor conditions, the ship already under way - it was extremely risky for the crew, and pretty dodgy for the passengers....
-
Not sure if this counts as an accident at sea, but it is being unloaded from a ship, so...
Butterfingers!
-
French passenger ferry Napoleon Bonaparte left listing in ocean after moorings snap in 60mph winds
Read more:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2224764/French-passenger-ferry-Napoleon-Bonaparte-left-listing-ocean-moorings-snap-60mph-winds.html#ixzz2BwQleeUm
-
I've never seen anything quite like this before.
I sailed on Enchantment and have a real soft spot for her, so it hurts to see this!
-
In view of the fact that this mishap took place in 2009 I thought I would try to see if I could see the findings of an official report on this incident as would be posted by the MCA in the event of it happening in the UK - as yet I have not been successful but did come across this site which records many more collisions:
http://www.cruiselawnews.com/articles/collisions/
-
In view of the fact that this mishap took place in 2009 I thought I would try to see if I could see the findings of an official report on this incident as would be posted by the MCA in the event of it happening in the UK - as yet I have not been successful but did come across this site which records many more collisions:
http://www.cruiselawnews.com/articles/collisions/
If memory serves me right that accident happened in Miami.
EDIT
does not serve me right it was Cozumel, Mexico. High winds and an out of position tug.
-
BBC reporting that during a routine life boat drill for crew, on board the Thomson cruise ship Majesty ( in port in the Canary Islands), 5 crew members were killed and 3 seriously injured as the lifeboat crashed over the side...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-21403419
Also reported - the Tour Manager of The Fisherman's Friends (concert-giving 'shanty men' from Cornwall) has been accidentally killed in Guildford.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-21401423
-
Terrible tragedy for five crew members to lose their lives and others to be injured. All the crew onboard the ship will have been affected by this accident, which has resulted in the loss or injury of friends
Captain Greybeard has also reported on this accident:
http://blogs.mirror.co.uk/captain-greybeard/2013/02/five-killed-in-cruise-ship-boa.html
-
A similar incident, nearly happened on QE2.
It was the practice at the time, believe in the late 70's to send a "Staff Launch" ashore as soon as clearance was give from local authorities, with the shore party, some Cruise Staff, Security etc to set up shop at the landing.
Night staff were allowed on this launch to get a head start, otherwise they would have to wait until "Open Gangways" was declared, ie all waiting pax were on their way!
The staff launch would be loaded on the boat deck with as many as 30 staff lowered and go straight into shore.
One day they lowered, the boat want to say it was #11, was about 1 deck when the brake drum housing basically exploded, leaving the boat...and people stranded at 1 deck level. They were there for about 3 hours as the had to be hauled up by use of chain blocks!
After that the staff launchs was loaded at the gangway! Thankfully nobody was hurt!
-
Captain Greybeard reported in his Mirror page that the Cruise Ship Carnival Triumph has had a fire and is facing 3 days at sea without full power. Luckily no injuries have been reported.
http://blogs.mirror.co.uk/captain-greybeard/2013/02/cruise-ship-adrift-after-fire.html
-
What does this say about the Carnival Corp? Carnival Triumph, Feb 2013, Costa Concordia, Jan 2012, Carnival Splendor, Nov 2010.
In my experince, it's time to make some changes in the organization.
-
What does this say about the Carnival Corp? Carnival Triumph, Feb 2013, Costa Concordia, Jan 2012, Carnival Splendor, Nov 2010.
In my experince, it's time to make some changes in the organization.
Looks like this ship was developing this fire for some time and Carnival were unwilling to bear the cost of cancellation to sort it out.
Gives me real peace of mind (not), as we will be on Azura in a couple of weeks. Still on the bright side it's only 5% of the fleet having real problems!
-
January 28th sailing itinery changed due to reduced speed. Reduced speed most likely due to reduced power available to drive the propulsion equipment which one could infer is due to diesel gen units being offline for whatever reason. So, is this a maintenance issue with d/g units being run or being pushed past their scheduled service intervals? Or is this a problem with the diesel generator units on this ship and her sisterships? Or was is a switchgear/capacitor issue? Clearly it was something big enough to prevent the engineers from transferring power from the other engine room D/G units to power the ship. Maybe the problem was with the electric motors on the prop shafts. We don't know and may never know the real reason.
-
What does this say about the Carnival Corp? Carnival Triumph, Feb 2013, Costa Concordia, Jan 2012, Carnival Splendor, Nov 2010.
In my experince, it's time to make some changes in the organization.
And wasn't there another - the Europa (??) that bashed the place as well as herself up alongside at Sharm al Sheik (2010?/) And Bob, have you included the shadowy incident off 'San Fran' a short time ago...
No time to check, so may have got it wrong - Sorry!
PS - At a quick glance
http://www.shipdetective.com/advice/safety/incidents_2012.htm
Here's a good link - and for any of my mistakes, I'll come back later and edit!
The company Never, Ever Ever should have sold QE2 -she could have been working all this time - and covering for all the poorly Carnival ships needing to take sickies - Boo.
Rosie
-
Now it's the turn of P&O's Aurora - Prop shaft probs
A friend's due to join her in Auckland...
http://blogs.mirror.co.uk/captain-greybeard/2013/02/repairs-delay-po-world-cruise.html
-
Situation on carnival triumph sounds grim if the daily mail is to be believed
http://bit.ly/V94Wng Carnival cruise ship hell continues with passengers told to defecate in plastic bags and urinate in ... #MailOnline
Can't help but notice from the photos that it's a Concordia sister.
Sent from my phone so apologies if it's brief!
-
Situation on carnival triumph sounds grim if the daily mail is to be believed
I imagine ANY Carnival (Funships) cruise to be grim..you want to see them at embarkation at the Terminal (old Spruce Goose building)near Queen Mary in Long Beach..a sight indeed..and the noise they made at sailaway.. :o Then again when your used with the refined dear QE2..anything else just isnt the same ;)
-
AND here we go again!!!!
Carnival Dream:
http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/14/travel/cruise-ship-trouble/index.html
According to a Carnival spokeswoman, on the radio, on my way home......An EMERGENCY GENERATOR failed so the ship could not leave port as the emergency generator was required for steering!
Things must have changed in the last 25 years!
-
Could be the Coastguard has told them they're going nowhere till the 'mergency gennie is put back together.
-
Could be the Coastguard has told them they're going nowhere till the 'mergency genie is put back together.
Coastguard has no jurisdiction!
They said that in another news story!
-
Have they started the back up gennie without isolating it from the board?
-
When sorrows come, they come not single spies, But in battalions
The Carnival Legend is "gubbed" too;
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/15/carnival-legend-cruise-ship-problem_n_2882872.html?utm_hp_ref=world&ir=World (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/15/carnival-legend-cruise-ship-problem_n_2882872.html?utm_hp_ref=world&ir=World)
And talking of Hamlet, this probably sums it up just as well;
-
Fire on board RCL's Grandeur of the Seas
http://www.cruisecritic.com/news/news.cfm?ID=5367
-
Fire on board RCL's Grandeur of the Seas
http://www.cruisecritic.com/news/news.cfm?ID=5367
Rosie,
Believe it or not, my wife Ellen and I dropped off our daughter and her husband off at the Port Canaveral cruise terminal on Sunday for their honeymoon cruise and saw Grandeur docked in port. I was shocked to see the photos in the news the next day of the ship I just had seen just the day before!
-
Interesting article here, showing how such incidents should be (and in this case, have been) handled :
http://travelswithanthony.wordpress.com/2013/05/28/grandeur-of-the-seas-fire-perpspective/
-
A South Korean ferry sunk today. More about it here:
https://www.theqe2story.com/forum/index.php/topic,6072.msg61830/topicseen.html#msg61830
-
It appears that quite a few ships recently have been suffering from Norovirus outbreaks. Following links are a report from the Daily Mail and a blog/article?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2600869/More-illnesses-aboard-Princess-cruise-ship.html
http://www.forbes.com/sites/melaniehaiken/2014/04/12/8-cruise-ship-outbreaks-in-2014-is-your-cruise-safe/
-
The Independence of the Seas was much in evidence in ports of South America earlier this year.
The link below describes a tragedy that involved the ship on April 3rd.
The story appears on Cruise Critic, did anyone see / read any other reports of the event?
https://gcaptain.com/mooring-fatality-st-kitts-line-handlers-drown-assisting-royal-caribbean-cruise-ship/
Interestingly too, some of the Pacific Islands' ports where QV was tied up to bollards fixed atop concrete 'islands'. Tonga's new quayside immediately comes to mind. There was a line handler there sheltering as he was clinging to a ladder - trying with all his might to avoid being blown off the ladder into the disturbed waters.
Rosie
-
Thank you, Rosie, for your post and links. I had read about the April 3 tragedy in a syndicated article in my local paper, but the article had no further information. Very sad indeed ! June
-
Terrible looking picture of the explosion :
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/29/huge-explosion-on-japanese-oil-tanker
Seven crew members rescued with severe burns, Captain missing.
-
Oh my... horrifying. Thanks for the news.
-
Comments on this page add that the tanker has sunk...
http://www.japantoday.com/category/national/view/oil-tanker-listing-off-japan-after-explosion
It seems that three crew members are not badly injured, four are severely burnt, and there is no trace of the Captain.
-
Terrible that this happened !!
-
A ferry has missed the exit to Dover harbour today, ramming the outer wall at running pace.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-29976646
-
A ferry has missed the exit to Dover harbour today, ramming the outer wall at running pace.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-29976646
Good to know that the majority of the passengers disembarked without any injuries.
-
Hopefully there were no more serious injuries upon examination of those brought to hospital.
Any more word on what happened ?
-
It's not been a good week for the Maritime world.
A car carrier, the Hoegh Osaka took an 'alternative' route out of Southampton last evening. She ended up listing close to The Brambles.
QE2 was mentioned in relation to the incident.
A professor fro So'ton University gave a good account (BBC radio news), it's hoped that she'll be on her way soon following an inspection of her hull, and the return of her crew.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-30671548
Scroll down here on the Mail online for some good 'views'!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2895837/Car-transporter-cargo-ship-runs-aground-Isle-Wight.html
Much more seriously, the hull of the Cypriot-registered Cemfjord, a cement carrier, was seen keel-up in the Pentland Firth last evening. Lifeboats returning to search again today - there were no signs of her 8 crew members, life-rafts, rings or jackets yesterday.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-30670842
There are still people unaccounted for following the Ferry fire on the Corfu-Ancona route.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-30663276
There have been two cargo ships found off Italy, having been abandoned by crew-members yet still full of people migrating from the Asia - Middle East
http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/30665125
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-30639794
-
According to the BBC on this evenings news, it could be several days before the car carrier is refloated and no guarantee of that. They are going back aboard to see if the cargo has shifted; if it has it could become quite a major operation to right her. QE2 had "nudged" the Brambles Bank on more than one occasion though I don't recall her ever getting stuck.
The Cemfjord has now sunk in the Pentland Firth and sadly still no trace of the eight crew members. The remains of a small Zodiac RIB have been found washed up on one of the nearby islands beaches but there is no direct evidence to link it to the Cemfjord. The Lifeboat search has been stood down this afternoon.
-
The BBC news at 22.00 stated that the Osaka's cargo shifted shortly after departure from Southampton and she was accordingly deliberately run aground in order to avoid sinking. So it could be quite a while before they can do anything about her.
-
Among other vehicles, Hoegh Osaka has a fleet of Bentleys on board...
Sounds like there may be work for the great salvage company SMIT.
Unfortunately two crew members were more seriously injured, requiring hospital treatment.
And Maritime Matters report:
http://maritimematters.com/2015/01/car-carrier-deliberately-beached/
-
I'm finding it quite easy to imagine QE2 on her side on that sandbank.... just imagine...
-
Can't possibly 'Like' that Rob ( not meaning to be rude and if you know what I mean!)
Imagination running riot here - almost thinking 'if only!'
Guessing too, that it will be raising all sorts of memories - not least of those who were on watch on QE2's bridge that sad, sad day...just wondering too if it was the same pilot...
Another link between the two 'topics' here:
Trinity House's ship, THV Galatea has been laying buoys around the 'stricken' vessel
https://www.facebook.com/trinityhouseuk?fref=ts
her main engineer has been posting on twitter @Keithalock
https://twitter.com/Keithalock
-
Looks as if the salvage work is going to be extremely tricky.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-30695349
-
Hoegh Osaka has freed herself on a rising tide, and is safely under the control of three tugs...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-30716023
-
A fire on board MS Boudicca - one of Fred Olsen's fleet has been reported.
No-on on board has been injured.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/cruise-ship-boudicca-was-left-without-power-after-engine-room-fire-off-coast-of-morocco-10001060.html
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30972125http://
news.sky.com/story/1414543/cruise-ship-listed-as-vessel-hit-by-fire
-
Hoegh Osaka is being unloaded. Unbelievably all the vehicles may be scrapped though. Anyone fancy a cheap Range Rover?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-31002897
-
Both Maritime Matters on Facebook
and the BBC are reporting that all the world cruise passengers on board MV Boudicca are being flown home
'Nearly 800 holidaymakers - most of them British - have had a trip cut short after their cruise ship caught fire.
An engine room blaze on board the Boudicca left it listing and powerless for about five hours off the coast of Morocco on Sunday.
Fred Olsen Cruise Lines said it had made the "difficult" decision to cancel the voyage and fly passengers home'.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31062898
-
Here we go again - another grounding, this time off Scotland:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-31515061
-
Oh, my !......
-
Parked it quite nicely didn't they? Looks like they approached the coast on pretty much a perpendicular heading...
-
Hi Peter - I would say so !
-
You know that new highly publicised and very expensive Condor Ferries giant high-speed trimaran that only entered service two days ago??
They've broken it already!
http://guernseypress.com/news/2015/03/28/condor-liberation-damaged-while-docking-in-st-peter-port/
-
NCL's Norwegian Dawn aground on reef, off Bermuda
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/may/20/norwegian-cruise-line-norwegian-dawn-aground-reef-bermuda
-
The Yangste River a tricky area to navigate, endless fishing nets, tiny boats and other paraphernalia drifting about -
in some respects it wasn't surprising to read of this tragic accident
We almost certainly saw the ship in a port a few years ago
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-32969861
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/china/11644989/Ship-carrying-450-people-sinks-in-Chinas-Yangtze-River.html
http://qz.com/417251/thirteen-days-for-160-chinas-fast-growing-cruising-industry-targets-seniors-with-low-rates/
-
Hi Rosie - Thank you for providing the links to the news articles about this terrible tragedy. Have you been on the Yangste near the point the ship capsized ? You mention heavy traffic and debris on the river ? Are there any sort of maritime regulations there or any sort of "policing" of the waters ?
-
Photos of Costa Mediterranea having problems today in Kotor.
-
Oh Dear.
She's managed to really nearly let it go...Hmm!
Good Watching, Bruce!
Not completely unlike a mini version occurred during a call at St Petersburg that QV made approx 4-5 yrs ago!
Tender #1 (i think it was) was in the middle of being swung down to be launched, when the little vessel got stuck, wedged - at approx. 45 degrees! (Although still in parallel with the ship - no sticking-out-bits, you understand!)
The locals weren't forthcoming in agreeing to lend us a crane, so we sailed as far as Tallin where the tender was hoisted easily back into place.
As you can imagine, a few of the pax were concerned - 'Not enough 'life-boats' was heard around the public areas of QV - and I guess there may have been a couple of cabins with enforced 'obstructed views...
-
I think the rule is that life boat capacity has to be 70% of PASSENGERS down one side.
-
There is another auto liner in trouble in the English Channel today 31st January:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35456682
-
There is another auto liner in trouble in the English Channel today 31st January:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35456682
To my eyes, it appears to be exactly the same design as the Hoegh Osaka that was in trouble this time last year. A similar fault surely? The MAIB haven't reported yet on last year's incident...
-
To my eyes, it appears to be exactly the same design as the Hoegh Osaka that was in trouble this time last year. A similar fault surely? The MAIB haven't reported yet on last year's incident...
I couldn't say I'm afraid - all the auto liners look pretty similar to me as I have never paid them much attention. I'll have to look up the history of both ships.
-
Hi Peter - and All
In a bit of haste - just checking that you are aware of moves to save the last remaining SRN4 - 'The Princess Anne' Hovercraft??
There's a petition to save her on change.org
-
Hi Peter - and All
In a bit of haste - just checking that you are aware of moves to save the last remaining SRN4 - 'The Princess Anne' Hovercraft??
There's a petition to save her on change.org
Yes - I signed it when it was at only around 4000 signature. It's about double that now.
-
Have you read about anthem of the seas today?
30 foot waves!! Just imagine.
Passengers tell of terror as cruise ship battered by nine-metre waves
http://gu.com/p/4ggjz?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard
-
Have you read about anthem of the seas today?
30 foot waves!! Just imagine.
Passengers tell of terror as cruise ship battered by nine-metre waves
http://gu.com/p/4ggjz?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard
The weather must have caught them out - cruise ships normally run and hide from weather like this. Feel sorry for the passengers on this one. I like rough sailing but to most its a nightmare. Damage to the fixtures and fittings on board looks to be fairly substantial too.
I recently saw some footage of QE in the midst of a Force 10 / 11 mid Atlantic (taken from the Commodore Club assuming hers is in the same place as QV). It all looked spectacular as the waves looked similar in size to those the RCCL ship encountered, but as an engineer I couldn't help wondering / worrying what it was doing to the ship's structure as although strengthened over the standard Vista design I wouldn't imagine she was designed to sail around it that kind of weather too often!!
QM2? Different matter entirely - I've been on her in a Force 10 - bring it on!! :)
Anyway - back on topic - not a nice experience and could quite easily put people off cruising for life.
Gav
-
In many papers in the US the Captain, cruise line etc, whomever made the decision to sail, are being heavily panned by all the professional weather services. The storm was known for several days if not weeks.
-
Interesting piece on storm damage to Irish Ferries Epsilon at the weekend. Glad we were safely in port!
http://afloat.ie/port-news/port-and-shipping-news/item/31326-storm-damage-revealed-as-irish-ferries-ship-epsilon-docks-in-dublin-port?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
-
2 Days ago - departed the wharf - Stbd main engine S.W. St/By pump automatically cut in - stopped it - it cut in again!
Went for a walk around - found tonnes of water spraying everywhere around the front of the main engine, where the engine S.W. pump isolating valve was. Quickly stopped that engine & closed down the stbd S.W. system.
The cause of the problem was the bottom blown out of the 5 inch isolating valve - resulting in around 15 tonnes of sea water now sloshing around in the engine room & bilges. I'm very disappointed in the quality of this valve ;) - it's only about 39-40 years old, made in Scotland, and has flowed millions of gallons of seawater over the 37 years it has been in use. A combination of erosion from water flow, and corrosion from electrolysis.
Gotta say though, I have pulled valves in S.W. systems on Chinese-built ships that are only 5-7 years old, and they were in worse condition!!!
I attach a couple of photos here, and would point out that many of the seawater system valves in both the QE2 & SSUS are probably in worse condition as they have been just sitting with stagnating water in them for years.
Skilly
-
Fascinating!! What would you say was the intended life expectancy of this part?
-
Interesting piece on storm damage to Irish Ferries Epsilon at the weekend. Glad we were safely in port!
http://afloat.ie/port-news/port-and-shipping-news/item/31326-storm-damage-revealed-as-irish-ferries-ship-epsilon-docks-in-dublin-port?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
One has to ask again - why did it sail? The cargo (cars, vans and lorries) appear to have been thrown around. That can't have been safe to the ship - surely such an object could seriously damage the ship??
It does remind you why "you may not return to car deck until we dock" !!
-
Hi Rob,
I believe about 30 years should have been a reasonable life expectancy.
The engines have now been running for 140,000 hours and all the components & attached auxiliary equipment should normally be inspected every five years. Back in the old days (last century!!!), if I had been on here during a survey, I would have hit these castings with a hammer when they were stripped down. If they don't 'ring' right, you find out why. Maybe people are just to tired these days to 'hit & listen' to what the component is trying to tell you. Or, hitting it might break it, which then causes expenditure to replace the broken part.
Cheers
Skilly
-
If it's going to break when ring-tested like that it would have needed replacing anyway, surely?
-
You've got to know how to 'ring it' without causing any grief. Doesn't have to be a hard hit - just a sharp rap.
Skilly
-
Meanwhile, in the Solent....
https://twitter.com/iowimages/status/698644646877126657
-
There's a surprising and happy-ish ending for this ship, swept far away by the tsunami of 11 March 2011 :
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2016/02/26/national/boat-drifted-hawaii-2011-tsunami-heading-back-japan/#.VtF6PSlN1bm
-
Chinese cruise ship sinks off Laem Chabang port
http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/content/152733 (http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/content/152733)
-
Chinese cruise ship sinks off Laem Chabang port
http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/content/152733 (http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/content/152733)
Sad.
She's the former Spirit of London built in 1972 for P&O.
-
Sad.
She's the former Spirit of London built in 1972 for P&O.
Yes, the image of her looks very sad - she's obviously worked hard for very many years
There may be quite an urgent need to move her,
she cmay be in channel(s) used by ships on their world voyages
-
Chinese cruise ship sinks off Laem Chabang port
http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/content/152733 (http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/content/152733)
I have had a report from a member that this link has caused major problems with his PC and they suspect it of having a "ransomware" virus.
However, I have checked it myself, and can see no problem at all, and my own security scans say its OK. The link appears to be to the Thai equivalent of the BBC as far as I can see.
However, we cannot vouch for every link that anyone posts on the forum, and any link you click is done so at your own risk (as with any website).
My recommendation is to ensure you're using an up to date operating system and web browser, which combined should protect you from most things.
-
http://maritime-executive.com/article/abandoned-cruise-ship-capsizes
Some of you may know this ship!
-
Some of you may know this ship!
We do ! some of us sat glued to the TV in the 80s and enjoyed each and every minute of the programme.
Ironic that a ship that gave so much pleasure to so many and must have been a dream of Advertising to not only Princess but the cruising world has ended up like this.... ???
-
There seems to be some doubt as to whether the capsized ship is the Pacific Princess ("Love Boat") or the Sun Princess. I wonder which it is?
-
More stories from my old magazines - some of these events are laughable - some have a more serious side!
How the hell can engineers run an engine for a month, from Italy to Lebanon, and not realise the huge difference in loads between the engine doing the work and the engine with no propeller connected??? Darwin awards should be presented, but no lives were at risk.
Skilly
-
"When I asked for a gap between the stacks, this is NOT what I meant!!!"
Skilly
-
"When I asked for a gap between the stacks, this is NOT what I meant!!!"
Skilly
Loadmaster, you had one job!
-
This CCTV clip has been posted on Twitter:
https://twitter.com/_youhadonejob1/status/724420084203159552
I am wondering where and when this was and what happened to cause this?
-
Hi Pete,
I (safely) disembarked a seismic research ship at this wharf 4 years later. A lovely little port in South Australia, with a couple of great local pubs!
It looks like I will have another 12 months on my current ship, then the next vessel (a bigger bulk carrier) will have a slow-speed diesel like the one described in the mishap below. Except, this new ship will have a CPP, so the engine doesn't have to reverse direction for the ship to go astern, which makes collisions far less likely :-\
Cheers
Skilly
Report follows:
What happened
At about 1450 on 8 October 2010, the partially loaded Liberian registered bulk carrier Grand Rodosi collided with the Australian fishing vessel Apollo S in Port Lincoln, South Australia. As a result of the collision, Apollo S, which was unmanned, was crushed against the wharf and sank shortly afterwards. Grand Rodosi sustained several relatively small holes in its bow shell plating.
What the ATSB found
The ATSB investigation found that, despite the pilot ordering astern movements, the ship's main engine did not run astern in the 5 minutes leading up to the collision. The chief engineer, who was operating the main engine start/fuel lever in the engine room control room, did not allow sufficient time for starting air to stop the ahead running engine. Consequently, when fuel was introduced into the engine, it continued to run ahead, despite the astern telegraph orders.
The investigation also found that the chief engineer's mistake was not identified by anyone on the ship's bridge or in the engine room control room until after the collision; that the master/pilot information exchange was less than optimal; and that bridge resource management principles could have been better applied during the passage to the berth.
What has been done as a result
Newlead Bulkers, the ship's managers, have amended their on board procedures to ensure crew monitor the direction of main engine turning after each engine order. They have also increased awareness through their fleet about this type of incident occurring.
Flinders Ports, the provider of pilotage services in Port Lincoln, have revised their risk assessment for the manoeuvre being undertaken during Grand Rodosi's berthing to include new preventative, as well as restorative, measures to be followed. Flinders Ports has also revised the port's pilotage passage plan to include indicative courses to be followed, both while transiting the channel and outside of it, and speed zones. This will enable the crews of visiting ship to be better informed about the pilotage passage their ship is about to undertake.
Safety message
It is of paramount importance that pilots and ships' crews maintain awareness of main engine movements and check engine tachometers following every movement to ensure that the engine is operating in the desired direction. This is particularly important when main engines are being operated in manual control.
In addition, pilots and the bridge teams should ensure that all the necessary information is exchanged at the beginning of a pilotage, including courses to be followed and speeds at critical positions during the passage to or from the berth/anchorage, so that all members involved in the pilotage have a shared mental model and therefore, a good understand of the pilotage before it begins.
General details (edited)
Date of event: 08 Oct 2010
Report Release date: 13 Sep 2012
Highest injury level: None
Vessel 1 details: Grand Rodosi - Flag:Liberia - IMO Number: 8800327 - Bulk carrier - Damage to Vessel: Minor
Vessel 2 details: Apollo S - Flag: Australia - IMO Number: 0634 - Steel fishing vessel - Damage to Vessel: Destroyed
-
While we are on the subject of accidents,
hopefully this pilot would have been OK?
Scroll down to short video, "Pilot (fall)"
https://www.facebook.com/marina.mercante2/?fref=nf
-
Thanks - I never expected such a quick and detailed answer. This forum never ceases to amaze when it comes to turning up with the goods. :)
-
While we are on the subject of accidents,
hopefully this pilot would have been OK?
Scroll down to short video, "Pilot (fall)"
https://www.facebook.com/marina.mercante2/?fref=nf
We do not see the pilot being rescued. He was, I hope...
-
-
Costly to repair I would think.
This news article says it will cost $2 to $3 million to repair the berth. Another article I read blames the high winds for the accident but you have to wonder why the ship was docking in these conditions.
http://www.krbd.org/2016/06/03/celebrity-cruise-ship-infinity-hits-damages-ketchikan-dock/
-
Here is the other article in the Daily Mail that mentions the inclement weather, and you can see the damage to the ship in the pictures posted.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-3625026/Celebrity-Cruises-Infinity-ship-crashes-dock-Ketchikan-Alaska.html
-
Not to sure where to post this news I found it on
Maritime Bulletin Daily June 29
Passenger ship QING about to capsize
http://www.odin.tc/en2016/read.asp?articleID=87
I think it was MSC Melody
-
Two officers killed as Viking Freya hits bridge.
http://gcaptain.com/two-officers-killed-after-viking-river-cruises-hits-bridge-in-germany/ (http://gcaptain.com/two-officers-killed-after-viking-river-cruises-hits-bridge-in-germany/)
-
This is tragic news and condolences go to the families of the two men who died.
This You Tube Video gives an idea of the damage.
We were on the Viking Freya in July on a Danube River Cruise. We saw the lowering of the wheelhouse to go under a bridge during the day when we were doing scenic cruising and we thought it was a sleek operation where everyone knew what to do and passengers were told they could stay on deck, but they must remain seated.
-
Wreck of HMS Terror found.
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/a3833f08082d4af2a51838540bd6aa5a/searchers-find-2nd-ship-doomed-british-expedition (http://bigstory.ap.org/article/a3833f08082d4af2a51838540bd6aa5a/searchers-find-2nd-ship-doomed-british-expedition)
-
Another link to Daily Mail article that also has a you tube video showing the damage to the river boat Freya
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-3783926/2-dead-cruise-ship-hits-bridge-southern-Germany.html
-
Wreck of HMS Terror found.
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/a3833f08082d4af2a51838540bd6aa5a/searchers-find-2nd-ship-doomed-british-expedition (http://bigstory.ap.org/article/a3833f08082d4af2a51838540bd6aa5a/searchers-find-2nd-ship-doomed-british-expedition)
This is Fantastic news...Thanks for posting!
The Guardian published this yesterday.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/sep/12/hms-terror-wreck-found-arctic-nearly-170-years-northwest-passage-attempt?CMP=fb_gu
(Also there's a memorial to the Orcadian surgeon and explorer, Dr John Rae in St Magnus Cathedral, Kirkwall - Orkney.
He discovered the final part of the North West Passage, and uncovered the fate of the Franklin expedition).
-
Condolences to the families of the two who died on the Viking Freya - terrible news.
-
Wreck of HMS Terror found.
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/a3833f08082d4af2a51838540bd6aa5a/searchers-find-2nd-ship-doomed-british-expedition (http://bigstory.ap.org/article/a3833f08082d4af2a51838540bd6aa5a/searchers-find-2nd-ship-doomed-british-expedition)
Very exciting news !
-
It appears there has been yet another fatal accident -
http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/13/europe/crew-killed-harmony-of-the-seas/index.html
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-37348292
Condolences to the family of the crew member killed and all good wishes for a complete recovery for those injured.
-
That certainly is bad news of other crew members dead or injured on Harmony of the Seas. Thinking of the family of the person killed and hope the injuries of the others are not too severe.
-
Very sad.
Condolences to the families of Viking Freya officers and Harmony of the Seas crew members who were killed and injured today.
-
There has been an accident with a ferry "getting stock in forward gear" in Scotland.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-37466864
From the sound of it, they have got off lightly - this looks as if it could have been a lot worse doesn't it?
-
It does indeed, Peter. They were lucky on all counts.
-
Storm Angus affecting shipping on the Irish Sea...
It must be an "adventure", being stuck out at sea when the storm is too violent for one's ferry to be able to dock safely :
http://www.rte.ie/news/2016/1121/833442-ferry/
This is a rare event. Normally, they would cancel all sailings until the storm has abated...
-
Excellent BBC docu-drama on the Herald of Free Enterprise disaster in Zeebrugge on 6 March 1987 :
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08g2r99
This was a ship that I had taken several times, and so many people I knew knew people who were on board that day...
Interesting to listen to the events that happened, as viewed from a fictitious passenger family's point of view, and as presented in the real hearings by crew members.
-
Vision of the Seas today in Abu Dhabi with a dead passenger been taken off an attempt to get the ship closer to Dubai for evacuation did not came that fast
https://instagram.com/p/BRfF6jyB2q-
-
Ponant - L'Austral
Under 'News' by Cruise Critic
Ponant Ship Ends Cruise and Diverts to Manila Due to Safety Warning; Hull Damage to be Inspected
http://www.cruisecritic.co.uk/news/news.cfm?ID=7649
-
Ouch... ship hits giant dockside crane in Dubai:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-middle-east-39849681/moment-huge-dubai-crane-collapses
-
Not quite at sea but relevant all the same.
A dockside crane at the dock of A&P, Falmouth has collapsed this morning whilst working on new RFA vessel Tidespring.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39870240 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39870240)
No one hurt thankfully
-
Here is quite a detailed article about what happened when the US Navy ship FitzGerald collided with the container ship, the ACX Crystal. I had heard nothing so far about the fate of the container ship and her crew ...
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2017/06/19/national/son-tried-save-navy-shipmates-collision-off-japan-cabin-flooded-mom/#.WUdqgsnYX6B
-
CSCL Jupiter runs aground and blocks the busy port of Antwerp :
https://www.joc.com/maritime-news/antwerp-access-blocked-ship-runs-aground_20170814.html
http://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-europe-40929625/stuck-container-ship-in-hot-water
The good news is that she has been refloated at high tide with the help of numerous tugs in readiness.
-
https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/Carnival-Cruise-Ship-Collides-With-Dock-on-Manhattans-West-Side-Officials-491888761.html?_osource=SocialFlowFB_NYBrand
And it's their newest liner..
-
Very interesting....
-
I wonder if the Hudson's notoriously strong currents played a part as she hit the dock whilst manoeuvring in? I also wonder if this was her first docking in Manhattan and whether the famous Moran tugs were in attendance at the time regardless of whether it was her first time docking in Manhattan? I know the NCL ships and I suspect most modern cruise ships dispense with the tugs when using Manhattan these days but maybe things will change now?
-
Those of us on the Final Departure of QE2 from New York, l still think back to being under the bridge and just how long we seemed to drift down river before making any attempt at turning....
-
Those of us on the Final Departure of QE2 from New York, l still think back to being under the bridge and just how long we seemed to drift down river before making any attempt at turning....
We did spend quite a bit of time, using our GPS based station keeping, waiting up river for you guys ;)
-
14:36
SHAREDFour yachts damaged by cruise ship sailing into Dartmouth
BBC Radio Devon
Four yachts have been damaged as a cruise ship sailed into Dartmouth on Wednesday morning.
The Saga Pearl Two clipped the yachts while manoeuvring.
In a statement, Dart Harbour said no-one was injured and an investigation was under way.
The cruise ship company has been approached for comment.
John Walker
-
14:36
SHAREDFour yachts damaged by cruise ship sailing into Dartmouth
BBC Radio Devon
Four yachts have been damaged as a cruise ship sailed into Dartmouth on Wednesday morning.
The Saga Pearl Two clipped the yachts while manoeuvring.
In a statement, Dart Harbour said no-one was injured and an investigation was under way.
The cruise ship company has been approached for comment.
John Walker
Feel sorry for the yacht owners, hope they are compensated by the guilty party/parties or their insurance companies. One of the photos of the incident shows that being on one of the yachts at the time would've been startling to say the least.
-
https://twitter.com/greenocktele/status/1042414019829620739
-
https://twitter.com/greenocktele/status/1042414019829620739
Saw her in Southampton just last Friday. Makes one wonder how bad it could've been with the larger cruise ships and their ever increasing windage...
-
She ended up right out in the middle of the Firth, with 3 tugs attached. 500 people ashore ever since...
https://twitter.com/mickmcgurk/status/1042523192701665280
-
Wonder if the bollards have been damaged or worse, ripped out, affecting future ship visits? Wonder if it was "just" the ropes breaking?
-
Wonder if the bollards have been damaged or worse, ripped out, affecting future ship visits? Wonder if it was "just" the ropes breaking?
Hi Thomas,
Nautica's stern ropes parted at around 10am which caused her to spring out from the quay on her bow rope such that she ended up at 90deg to land.
The quay at Greenock Ocean Terminal is concrete faced therefore I would imagine the motion of the ship being blown onto the quay causes the waves /wash to rebound off the solid face and start a pendulum motion which quickly compounds therefore straining the mooring ropes - in this case the stern ones gave way. The mooring bollards (as far as I know) are fine - they will be rated for far higher loads that this I guess - given the size of vessel which ties up here on a regular basis plus Olsen's Black Watch is on the same berth today.
Tugs Anglegarth and Svitzer Milford arrived quickly and assisted her out into the middle of the river where an additional tug Ayton Cross arrived to assist her fleetmates. Eventually Nautica managed to get her anchor to hold and two tugs were stood down leaving Ayton Cross on standby in case of further issues. I don't know if she had a stern line on her or not.
There were approx. 450 pax and 26 crew ashore at the time who were looked after in Greenock Town Hall until the ship was assisted back onto the berth at around 2000 last night - the tugs were stood down shortly after.
She sailed for Belfast at around 2300.
A bit of action and adventure for her remaining pax yesterday!
A couple of photos of what couldn't be seen from shore taken by tug man Ron Fraser who was aboard Svitzer Milford yesterday, one of Nautica at 90deg to shore taken (ie facing up our street!!) from the Aldi car park next to Greenock Ocean Terminal by my other half Shelagh and a couple of the tugs assisting in the river are attached.
Whilst dramatic the best place for Nautica was out on the open river where there was space for her to move around without endangering herself or any surrounding vessels / structures.
I haven't heard of any injuries and the ship herself wasn't damaged either. Good on her crew yesterday - I'll bet the atmosphere was fraught at best on board!!
Finally and IMHO very very important to say is massive respect to the tug crews yesterday - no one wants to be out in this weather.
My friend Jamie Shorthouse is Chief Engineer on Anglegarth (the one taking waves over her s'bd bulwark in photo 1) - I've yet to speak to him but hope to hear the story from his viewpoint soon.
Gav
-
Gav - This is great!
Thanks so much for the story - and further details looked forward to with anticipation!
Just a couple of points/questions - it's usual for 'modern' cruise ships to hold their position by electronic auto-steering equipment linked to GPS. It seems as if this hadn't been possible for Nautica - perhaps because of the (tidal) depths - and or the direction of the prevailing gusts? Or maybe because of the 'residence' of the Mv Captayannis?
Do you know whether the tugs were on standby all day following her breakaway? If so, it could have been possibly quite expensive for the shipping line!?
As you mentioned, it must have been a tough day for crew in need of shore leave - as well as for possibly bewildered elderely pax!
QV broke her mooring lines at 0800hrs in San Francisco, think it was in 2014 - it happened directly below our little table at breakfast time; interest, noise and movement were much in evidence!
It was hectic on board, and chaotic shoreside - the gangway just been lowered, with disembarkation in progress, as well as day trippers well on their way off to catch the coaches!
That was an 'interesting' experience - the Hotel Manager took command shoreside, and the tiny arrival area was over-run with 'highly anxious' crowds!
Later that evening - it was an overnight-stay and a new line was noted as we settled down for dinner!
-
Hi Rosie,
I'm not sure regarding the use of GPS to keep her on station but I would imagine that the wind speed and sea state would've precluded any use of engines thrusters for that purpose. Apparently it took a few attempts to get the anchor to bite but once that happened only one tug (Ayton Cross I think) remained on station - this will have reduced the bill to Oceania Cruises a little!!
Captayannis lies on a sandbank which is outwith the main shipping channels and is further across the river towards Helensburgh so wouldn't have come into play yesterday.
Alls well that ends well thankfully!!
Gav
-
Great photos and background information, thank you Gav! Lucky Nautica wasn't one of the massive newbuilds as things could've then been worse for the bollards and tugs let alone the involved cruise ship. A reminder that Mother Nature holds the ultimate power.
-
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-47680055
MV Viking Sky evacuated after engine problems.
-
MS Viking Sky is in trouble, with an engine failure in very heavy seas off Norway.
What is alarming to me, is that they've not be able to deploy the lifeboats, yet are using helicopters to rescue people. This raises obvious questions and concerns. She's a relatively small ship, with just 1300 souls on board, and that's going to be difficult enough to slowly evacuate by helicopter, a few at a time.
As it stands, it looks like she got engines started and has been able to move away from the shore, but it wasn't far off being another Concordia.
In the videos, there's a shot showing furniture flying around, and metal planks falling from the ceiling, despite the fact that the ship is "just rolling". Why isn't all this stuff secured?
https://twitter.com/alexus309/status/1109530668290183172
https://twitter.com/emilnivantha/status/1109476950068744193
https://twitter.com/alexus309/status/1109570007657115648
-
Apparently she has moored safely in nearby sheltered waters after she was able to get underway on one main diesel of her four in total:
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/world-news/viking-sky-cruise-ship-norway-16018568
Maybe it was the increased risk of exposure in the lifeboats in such weather and climate found off Norway and perhaps the passenger demographic that made a helicopter evacuation preferable until such time as it would've been too late as per MV Costa Concordia's situation when they may have used the lifeboats as a last option unless her rolling made that not an option too - however, I can't think why rolling would stop them deploying the lifeboats as MV Oceanos' crew had no issues with leaving their passengers behind before she'd sunk too much for the passengers to use the lifeboats due to her list. The lifeboats are designed to withstand such stormy weather, even being self righting these days I think? The ride would be awful but better than being on a ship about to be wrecked on the nearby shoreline. This brings the potential reasons they were not deployed back to risks of exposure and the passenger demographic as all I can think of as reasons not to deploy as no physical reasons regarding the equipment should've stopped them surely?
Just thinking off the top of my head, so please excuse any ignorance displayed in the paragraph above!
Regardless, the ship and all onboard had a lucky escape thankfully as the resultant disaster could've had chilling parallels with the awful TEV Wahine disaster.
Maybe lessons will be learnt, as is always said but doesn't necessarily happen. I wonder how much repairs will cost, including fixing her main diesels, not to mention insurance claims from this "incident"? Millions of £/$ for sure.
-
Now lets try this with one of the " (fill in the name here) of the Seas" with close to 6000 passengers!
-
Very unusual in this day & age to have multiple engine failure that can kill all propulsion, so I doubt there is anything wrong with the engines. The trouble with a total propulsion failure in these conditions is that the ship cannot be kept head-to-wind, and the stabilizers don't function with the ship stopped, so the ship naturally rolls a bit! (Been there - Indian Ocean, rolling violently, thrown out of my bunk just before my beer fridge was ripped from it's mountings on the bulkhead and tossed inverted across the deck, to spew it's contents everywhere!).
But, a fuel supply failure should only affect half the engines if the supply system is split port/stbd, or fwd/ aft. Or, if it is a diesel-electric propulsion system, a main bus failure could cause a total propulsion failure. However, a bus failure can normally be overcome by banging out the bus coupler and at least getting power to half the propulsion system.
Or maybe it was a 24vdc control system failure? On a near-new ship!
I don't know the ship, but will look up what is available.
P&O's 'Aurora' has just done two back-to-back cruises up the Norwegian coast - apparently everyone totally enjoyed it, but the 'Aurora' is twice the size..
Skilly
-
OK - checked out the 'R-R Promas' propulsion system as fitted to 'Viking Sky' - it is basically the same diesel-electric physical set-up as in QE2 - i.e., two electric propulsion motors (7,250 kW each) driving two fixed pitch 6-bladed propellers via tried & true propeller shafts, with power being supplied by 4 MAN diesel generators (2 x 9L32/44CR & 2 x 12V32/44CR engines).
But, the Viking Sky has twin rudders, set one behind each propeller. The R-R Promas system is a drag-reducing system involving the rudder/propeller relationship. It is NOT the diesel-electric propulsion system in the machinery spaces.
My choice is a propulsion bus/propulsion electrical system failure, or a propulsion control system failure. No pax reports have mentioned anything about lights being out, so the DGs are still supplying power, meaning the actual engines are still functioning.
An earlier vessel of this class suffered a propulsion system transformer explosion early on in it's life (QM2 all over again?).
Cheers,
Skilly
-
Apparently she has moored safely in nearby sheltered waters after she was able to get underway on one main diesel of her four in total:
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/world-news/viking-sky-cruise-ship-norway-16018568
Maybe it was the increased risk of exposure in the lifeboats in such weather and climate found off Norway and perhaps the passenger demographic that made a helicopter evacuation preferable until such time as it would've been too late as per MV Costa Concordia's situation when they may have used the lifeboats as a last option unless her rolling made that not an option too - however, I can't think why rolling would stop them deploying the lifeboats as MV Oceanos' crew had no issues with leaving their passengers behind before she'd sunk too much for the passengers to use the lifeboats due to her list. The lifeboats are designed to withstand such stormy weather, even being self righting these days I think? The ride would be awful but better than being on a ship about to be wrecked on the nearby shoreline. This brings the potential reasons they were not deployed back to risks of exposure and the passenger demographic as all I can think of as reasons not to deploy as no physical reasons regarding the equipment should've stopped them surely?
Just thinking off the top of my head, so please excuse any ignorance displayed in the paragraph above!
Regardless, the ship and all onboard had a lucky escape thankfully as the resultant disaster could've had chilling parallels with the awful TEV Wahine disaster.
Maybe lessons will be learnt, as is always said but doesn't necessarily happen. I wonder how much repairs will cost, including fixing her main diesels, not to mention insurance claims from this "incident"? Millions of £/$ for sure.
Using the lifeboats would have been the very, very last resort. The danger to the passengers when loading them would probably have been far too great in that weather to have been adoption. As is always the case in these types of situation, don't leave the ship unless absolutely necessary, the Captain would have considered this, and a hundred other factors, when making his evacuation plan.
-
Using the lifeboats would have been the very, very last resort. The danger to the passengers when loading them would probably have been far too great in that weather to have been adoption. As is always the case in these types of situation, don't leave the ship unless absolutely necessary, the Captain would have considered this, and a hundred other factors, when making his evacuation plan.
Makes sense. The thing that worries me, is that in an incident that means you can't use the lifeboats for whatever reason - all the remaining options aren't very good (especially if the ship's interior can't be trusted to not go flying... at least the piano was bolted down - but why not the giant plant pot - it could have killed someone (as could the falling metal ceiling) - and could have gone through one of the windows. The rate of taking people off via helicopter is very very slow. With 6000 aboard, you'd be talking days.
-
OK - checked out the 'R-R Promas' propulsion system....
Thanks for the explanation! Amazing to hear how the QE2 plant, developed in the early 80s, is still so close to the best way to do it today. I didn't realise any new cruise ships still had prop shafts until just now.
You talk about resilience and redundancy - that is part of my job too in IT - even though none of it is life-threatening, all the systems have 2 separate power sources, 2 networks, at least 2 of each disk etc. etc. Surprised that this incident on a new ship caused this problem.
-
Regarding Viking Sky
Hi Skilly,
A "maritime adviser" from Norway this morning on the BBC suggested that all other ships in the area had escaped the sea conditions off the coast by sailing much earlier into the nearest and most appropriate harbour.
He implied that there had been warnings in the recent shipping forecasts, and said he couldn't understand why the Viking Sky hadn't followed in the same way.
Might staying out, have affected power/ the engines - could their failure (If they had stopped?) been stopped by/because of the obviously heavy mounting seas?
And - when choosing who to evacuate by helicopter first - I do wonder how the choices are made?
btw - On board QM2, en route through to the Suez from the Gulf, we had exercises and drills that went as far as making sure that after a roll-call for All pax And Crew, we (Pax!) were instructed to stay in our cabins...
On board Viking Sky, I can't think why anyone (pax, and possibly ?off-duty crew) were still on any of the decks, unless instructed to try to secure the moving furniture.
The first overt signs of promising bad weather other than on the PA system on current Cunard ships are the 'appearance of paper-bags - and removal of lower vases" from surfaces to safety!
Lets hope that Viking Sky Crew and Passengers are all safe and well by now...
-
Now lets try this with one of the " (fill in the name here) of the Seas" with close to 6000 passengers!
Couldn't agree more Rod. Especially given the great age and lack of mobility of many cruise passengers.
-
HI Rosie,
Very strange - the propulsion failure. It could actually be sludge stirred up in the day tanks by the rough weather. But normally sludge in the fuel systems would be removed by the purifiers/clarifiers before getting to the day tanks or the engine filters. To have 4 engines drop off at the same time means the ship's redundancy systems are not very well thought out - the fuel systems must be 'split' so only half the machinery should be affected by a failure. You should be able to lose one or maybe two engines, but not four, and not the entire propulsion system. That is unless the dreaded 'diesel disease' hit, and microbial bacteria had infiltrated both day fuel tanks.
In 2010 new regulations were invoked requiring ships (especially passenger ships)over a certain length (120 metres) to have propulsion redundancy so they could always manage to safely get to the nearest port in the event of a major failure (known as the 'Safe Return to Port System). The regulation also requires the lack of propulsive power time to not exceed 1 hour.
Obviously, the Viking Sky (built in 2016-17) was unable to comply with this requirement, so many questions are going to be asked. Although the SRtP regs were primarily designed for ships that have experienced a fire/grounding event, why did this vessel lose it's propulsion after having experienced neither of these two alternatives?
Or did someone just make a huge mistake?
Awaiting an explanation with much interest.
Skilly
-
Skilly - just a thought, but is it possible that there is a glitch in the control system software which shut things down when it shouldn't have...?
-
Thanks, Skilly, for your explanations. Please keep us informed with more.
-
Great Stuff, Skilly
I had wondered too whether the ship's GPS was also hit, although maybe that on a separate circuit...
Also the props - might they have come out of the water - if so, would this have caused the power plant to seize up?
The lighting was kept going, presumably emergency gennies were deployed etc etc
I very much got the impression that it could have been "human error"??
The owner looked so normal on TV , smiling (relief perhaps?) - deep shock must have set in...
The other question would be one for the Captain - Just wondering whether it ever would have been thought that waiting in cabins for the helicopter was preferable than waiting on the outside decks...
And - with an enforced evacuation, is there usually a priorities protocol?
Incidentally, on board QV last December, there was an Drill on the aft space of Deck 9:
Helicopter had crashed onto ship - and fire required attention - Best Breakfast-time entertainment ever witnessed!
(PS I Always, always have breakfast outside up there!)
All the best to you 'and yours'
Rosie
-
Almost unbelievable photos (https://web.facebook.com/pg/cruiselawnews/photos/?tab=album&album_id=2120946424620269&__xts__%5B0%5D=68.ARCepzsbqsBnRYzOqWVe80BfppdlphBBp9ADAekHmrZaljeJQDLIrC27hHv_Dke3741rd2GHkkrdaZImttkkzZqwEDpBYM0_ucA3GnGY-qY5kTREeB3Dq-VG4Pb2MzyWzCkje24kdQ02CDvgxjQ2OUI2KX1Ltlp-1oE9n6rL007q88_9Nm5ICElkze864ZEJWwioNLGnaQmK2QG_oGml24BpeYsa_J8sS3L-kEbla6AMyNpzZct4FHhBu2XcCTALHjvM_B5234fN_sP9fXdvBuv2sFftuCGbwm3krNxkC1DGpN7nwC44L4sl0nxmQuHLCRKPeCPCJ2-ZZ8oVVTlVdA&__tn__=-UCH-RH-R) of Viking Sky on Facebook...
Link above under "photos".
-
Plus this (found via your link)
https://www.cruiselawnews.com/2019/03/articles/power-loss/viking-sky-loses-power-starts-evacuation-of-passengers/
-
Peter,
Your 'Glitch in the control system' comment often happens, especially on new or nearly-new vessels.
On one occasion (and I have experienced several similar events on new or near-new vessels) I had a propulsion failure when both main engines shut down in heavy weather, and on a vessel that wasn't very old. We finally found the problem in the propulsion gearbox control circuitry - a wire had fallen out of a terminal connection - the wiring had all been installed into each respective connection on the terminal rail, but the terminal rail securing screws had never been tightened. In the rough weather, the weight of the wiring loom eventually pulled this wire out of the terminal rail connection.
Unfortunately, this wire was the one that told the engine control systems that the propulsion gearbox had sufficient oil pressure to safely function - when it fell out, the main engines stopped, as they were designed to do if the gearbox lost pressure.
Sometimes (in fact, nowadays, all too frequently!) the basic machinery doesn't have a problem, but the instrumentation & control systems require so many electrical devices & connections to monitor everything that the potential for failure in these circuits is far greater than for failure of the actual machinery. (Ask Boeing why they have made their 737 Max 8s so complex!).
Engineers these days don't actually monitor the engines as we did 'in the old days'. Today's engineers monitor the telemetry and readouts much more than walking around the machinery and actually looking, feeling & listening. And, to my way of thinking, something has been lost.
Skilly
-
From Facebook, GCaptain quoting Reuters
“The level of lubricating oil in the tanks was within set limits, however relatively low, when the vessel started to cross Hustadvika... The heavy seas in Hustadvika probably caused movements in the tanks so large that the supply to the lubricating oil pumps stopped. This triggered an alarm indicating a low level of lubrication oil, which in turn shortly thereafter caused an automatic shutdown of the engines," the Norwegian Maritime Authority said.
(UK and US have joined Norway’s in investigating further)
Earlier on Wednesday, the Viking Sky left the port of Molde, where it had been anchored since Sunday, for repairs at a shipyard in Kristiansund, some 70 km (43.5 miles) away. (Reporting by Gwladys Fouche; Editing by Toby Chopra)
The Norwegian Maritime Authority’s full statement is below:
Last night, the Norwegian Maritime Authority (NMA) granted the company a permit to sail on a single voyage to Kristiansund to have necessary repairs made. Throughout the night, the NMA has worked together with the ship’s classification society, Lloyd’s, and the company in order to identify the reason why the Viking Sky suffered power “blackout” at Hustadvika in challenging weather conditions on Saturday 23 March.
For the present, our conclusion is that the engine failure was directly caused by low oil pressure. The level of lubricating oil in the tanks was within set limits, however relatively low, when the vessel started to cross Hustadvika. The tanks were provided with level alarms, however these had not been triggered at this time. The heavy seas in Hustadvika probably caused movements in the tanks so large that the supply to the lubricating oil pumps stopped. This triggered an alarm indicating a low level of lubrication oil, which in turn shortly thereafter caused an automatic shutdown of the engines.
The NMA has drawn up a general safety notice about ensuring a continuous supply of lubricating oil to engines and other critical systems in poor weather conditions. This should be done in cooperation with the engine supplier and, moreover, be included in the ship’s risk assessments in the safety management system.
Viking Ocean Cruises has made the following statement: “We welcome the prompt and efficient investigation carried out by the NMA and we fully understand and acknowledge their findings. We have inspected the levels on all our sister ships and are now revising our procedures to ensure that this issue could not be repeated. We will continue to work with our partners and the regulatory bodies in supporting them with the ongoing investigations,”
Norwegian Maritime Authority is in a continuous dialogue with the company and classification society, and this cooperation has been successful. We will follow up the ongoing work to rectify damages on vessels. Furthermore, we will continue the constructive dialogue with the classification society, company and the Accident Investigation Board Norway in order to reveal underlying causes and identify appropriate measures.
(c) Copyright Thomson Reuters 2019
-
Very worrying report, when you think about the length of time that diesel power has been
in use at sea something as essential as an engine lubrication system should be designed to tolerate heavy seas.
BTW...considering some of the conditions that the QE2 regularly sailed through, the 20 foot seas and wind speeds quoted were rather moderate.........
-
QE2 had the same problem, but different area. Boiler water levels.
However we would take precautions by jacking fuel valves open in rough weather, so they would not close automatically.
-
Great to see the problem found so quickly, and I am very happy to be wrong!
But, who instructed the crew to operate the engines with the oil tank levels so low (even though they were still within limits)? Normal practice on ships I have been on is to operate with the tank levels quite a way above the minimum marks to prevent weather conditions/purifying operations etc from causing a low alarm condition.
Skilly
-
Hi Skilly,
https://insurancemarinenews.com/insurance-marine-news/viking-sky-lost-engine-power-because-of-low-levels-of-lubricating-oil/
Seems as if there are still more questions, hoping you won't mind!
Lubricating oil - Isn't this just for greasing - like Vaseline? (Petroleum jelly!) - and would it have be kept warm to loosen it prior to use?
And - although it evidently moved with the ship one way, perhaps it hadn't moved back closer to the sensors?
Might the dials have been read earlier when the ship was steady, and then showing as moderately high?
When the ship was being built, wouldn't a situation similar to this one have been anticipated and tested in tanks, prior to final assessments regarding "fitness to travel"?
-
Rosie,
Lube oil isn't for greasing - it's for preventing your engines from seizing! (ha! Poetry!)
The oil has nearly the same viscosity as the oil in your car engine, and does exactly the same job - it lubricates the moving internal parts and prevents metal-to-metal contact (which would generate a hot spot, and probably lead to engine failure).
The oil also takes heat away from the internal components and transfers it to the engine cooling water, sometimes in a sea water cooler, and sometimes in a fresh-water cooled cooler (depends on manufacturers preferences).
And it's third purpose is to remove wear particles from inside the engine and carry them to the oil filters.
If you take a bucket half full of water and start swinging it backward & forward, eventually you will get water right up one side of the bucket, and have the bottom of the bucket nearly exposed on the other side. The water will 'surge' across the bucket as it is moved. Imagine the low oil level float being located on the side where the bottom of the bucket is nearly exposed - it will trigger a Low Level alarm.
However, the alarm response time is normally adjustable - ie., imagine if the oil tank level alarm delay is set for 15 seconds, and the alarm float switch is down for 10 seconds (indicating a low oil level), the alarm will not physically activate.
But, if the alarm delay is set for 5 seconds, and the float switch is down for 10 seconds the alarm will activate. This alarm does not shut the engine down - it just tells the duty engineer he needs to transfer some fresh oil from the storage tank to the engine sump tank. The alarm delay settings are there to enable the alarm activation time to be 'delayed' so as to prevent continuous false alarms when the fluids are surging around the tank in bad weather.
However, in the Viking Sky, the engines actually shut down. This means the engine oil levels in the sump tanks got so low that the oil pumps sucked air, the engine oil pressure dropped suddenly, and the engine oil pressure shutdown switch was instantly activated (no delay time allowed on this one!), and worked properly to protect the engine.
So, why didn't their engine's oil sump tank low level alarms activate early enough to give the engineers time to top up the oil levels before the shutdowns occurred? That is the big question!
When all this electronic control wizardry began being installed in ships back in the 70s & 80s, there used to be what was called a 'Function Test' button. Once a day we would press it, just before putting the engine room to bed. The Function Switch would instantly test ALL the many hundreds of alarm channels and ensure their integrity & functionality, and those circuits that had delays incorporated would indicate this by taking anything up to 30 seconds before their indicator light would begin flashing. So, after 30 seconds, I could, at a glance, scan all the channels to ensure they were all working before the engine room was left un-manned for the night. Passenger vessels are forbidden to operate with the engine control room un-manned, but that is no excuse for not testing the alarm circuits & functions.
However, as time has gone by, and the electronic complexity has increased, I have been seeing this facility to 'Function Test' all the channels has slowly disappeared. But, having said that, if one gets a broken wire on a circuit, it should pop up as a fault and tell the engineer it has failed.
Viking Sky should have low oil level float alarms in the sump tanks. Why did they not go off well before the engine oil pumps lost suction? Or are they fitted at the wrong level? Or, had someone, with all 4 alarms continually sounding off together, thought there must have been a common alarm system fault and muted the alarms? Trying to physically dip the tanks in that weather is hopeless - you have to bring the oil levels up to the correct marks before you hit the rough weather (knowing what was outside, they should have checked the levels while they were still navigating the 'Inside Passage'). It's called 'Anticipation' and 'Forethought'!
This ship had probably never been in weather so wild before (which makes me laugh - seeing the video footage, it was not really that rough! Cargo vessels normally plod straight through that stuff every day, but cruise ships desperately try to avoid it because they want their passengers to return another day).
I will be awaiting the MAIB report with interest.
Cheers,
Skilly
ps - interesting to note Viking Sky's engines are smaller models of those fitted to QE2
-
Skilly might not even get this one, but possibly there might even be "one too many matchsticks" allowed into play?
-
The MSC Opera has hit the quay and another vessel at Venice:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-48489523
-
It must have been a terrifying experience for passengers on the river boat seeing a huge ship sailing towards the boat and for the passengers on the MSC Opera when the lines from the tugs broke and they realised that the ship they were on was out of control.
-
The Daily Mail has some video footage and photos
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7095867/Cruise-ship-collides-tourist-river-boat-dock-busy-Venice-canal.html
-
Poor Venice... the people there must be so fed up with the giant cruise ships...
Glad that no major injuries resulted. It could have been much worse...
P.S. The name of the ship is slightly ironic, Venice being such an opera paradise!
-
The MSC Opera has hit the quay and another vessel at Venice:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-48489523
Horrific video. They're very lucky indeed that nobody was killed either on the dock, or on the river boat.
https://twitter.com/Spammals/status/1135196620495233025
-
She was due here in Kotor tomorrow (Monday) at 14:00. I am guessing she may not make it.
-
Closely watching this incident as it occurred in a port fairly nearby. Will be very interested to discover the cause, water looks very shallow. Media were trying to blame it on Dorian...of course that had left the area on Friday, the capsize occurred Sunday....
-
It's not clear from the pictures, and I've seen nothing on the news, but is that an auto liner? There have been several of these in trouble in recent years, usually because the cargo has shifted.
-
It's not clear from the pictures, and I've seen nothing on the news, but is that an auto liner? There have been several of these in trouble in recent years, usually because the cargo has shifted.
Car carriers are notoriously awkward when they are partially or completely empty, especially if the heavy machinery/plant etc has been off loaded and possibly only light vehicles left onboard.
With her high freeboard she is a 'sitting duck's for strong winds at low speed and when manoevering, as such she will regularly require guys to control her when entering and leaving harbour.
It's a similar situation to the big cruise ships with deck upon deck of balconies.
An old Norwegian Captions whom I served with on several occasions, Captain Tues Lura, when Captain of RVS would greet the pilot on his arrival on the bridge with the words, " Mr Pilot I have a problem with wind!"
RVS was one of the early ships to have numerous balconies.
-
Closely watching this incident as it occurred in a port fairly nearby. Will be very interested to discover the cause, water looks very shallow. Media were trying to blame it on Dorian...of course that had left the area on Friday, the capsize occurred Sunday....
Strange incident... With the finale of the rescue very reminiscent of the Poseidon adventure film. So glad the crew are all ok. Ship looks in very good condition, wonder what mistake was made and by whom
-
Car carriers are notoriously awkward when they are partially or completely empty, especially if the heavy machinery/plant etc has been off loaded and possibly only light vehicles left onboard.
Apparently she was fully loaded and departing to go to Baltimore, I've seen reports of 4000 vehicles onboard.
Port of Brunswick, Georgia is heavily used for vehicle and machinery transport, Kia, Mercedes, Porsche and Caterpillar have plants in the state.
-
They've said it was all Hyundai and Kia cars.
What a waste, they'll all be scrapped.
-
https://apnews.com/5a9dfdca5b36459a950432ee18327f34
-
And the first prize goes to Carnival for at least having the decency to hit one of their own ships!!
:) :) :) :)
-
Well, they've hit enough docks in recent years haven't they? I guess they thought they'd go one better. After all, why break one ship when you can break two at the same time...?! ::)
-
Looks like a lot of damage - hope no-one was hurt in the incident.
The Captain will be in big trouble this morning :(
-
Looks like a bit of Xmas paperwork coming up for someone!
Normally the occifer down aft would be calling the distances.
Wonder if he (she) got fixated by distance to bow at the waterline and forgot to look up and check bow projection at the foc'sle?
Or was it just too much wind/not enough thrusters?
Skilly
-
CNN news report states that 6 guests had minor injuries. Also the passengers were allocated $100 onboard spend because of the collision.
-
Back in 2009 the Carnival Legend brushed against the RCCL Enchantment of the seas in Cozumel.
Love the footage at the end of Carnival crew hurredly painting over the damage......
Link (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0wzxygynxk)
-
Back in 2009 the Carnival Legend brushed against the RCCL Enchantment of the seas in Cozumel.
Love the footage at the end of Carnival crew hurredly painting over the damage......
Link (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0wzxygynxk)
Oh I remember that on the news at the time!
I get the impression, though, that the painting work was a few days later rather than immediately it happened?
-
In the far flung future....Carnival Spacelines experience some deja-vue..... :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
-
Reports all across the media (including newspapers) regarding crew members and relating to the CMV Fleet. - in lay up between Bristol and Tilbury
https://www.travelweekly.co.uk/articles/375911/cruise-ship-detained-in-tilbury-over-serious-concerns-for-crew
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-53110744
Implications relate to COVID-19 - Mods, you might think it more appropriate on COVId-19 Topic...?
-
Strange what the media does, that this two year old story has suddenly gone "viral" with old video.
The Marine Accident Investigative Report is on line with some interesting information and photos.
Pacific Sun is small by present day standards, only 47,000 tons, and quite attractive compared to the new stuff that's out there clogging up the seas.
Hey, there's a name for RCI's new ship... "Clogging of the Seas".
I know this post is a few years old but.... with little else to do this lockdown Saturday afternoon, i looked back at the start of this thread and found your post ref Pacific Sun!!
Having done 3 contracts on her i can safely say, without fear of contradiction that she was, in no shape or form, 'attractive', be that externally or internally!!
When she changed Flag states in 2010, from London to Malta, it was because she was so totally inadequate safety wise, and had to have about 1000 tons of concrete pumped into he to sort out her stability!! Fortunately i left shortly afterwards, never to return and, instead moved over to Seabourn.
As a service to the maritime community her last owner, a Chinese company, only kept her for a few years and she eventually ended up where she should have been many, many years before - ALANG!
There again, i suppose being on a ship with 1500 Aussies didn't help my sanity much, especially when the ship was originally built to take about 2/3 of that number, with the extra berths being added for the Australian market.
The majority of her trips were 7 days from either Sydney or Brisbane, a day at sea up to Noumea, then Isle of Pines & Vanuatu, back to back and then 2 days back to Aus. Those last two days were always a nightmare as the passengers were given back their confiscated Duty Free the last sea day before turnaround day!!! Durrrr, these are Aussies, virtually all the Duty Free was consumed before we got anywhere near Aussie waters!
The only good thing my time onboard Pacific Sun did for me was to take me to a few remarkable ports/islands, the best two possibly being, Mystery Island and Isle of Pines. If you've ever been to either of these two beautiful places you'll know what i mean. Isle of Pines especially is what you imagine a South Pacific Island to be, and it certainly doesn't disappoint.
If i can find a few photos of either i'll post them.
-
Excellent report on the Wakashio grounding and oil spill disaster off Mauritius and the resultant ecological and economic damage, undoing decades of conservation efforts.
https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2020/08/14/national/mauritius-oil-spill-compensation/
-
No. This one wasn't 'Ship hits Bridge'.
It was 'Bridge hits Ship' - it was the bridge driver made the mistake.
-
No. This one wasn't 'Ship hits Bridge'.
It was 'Bridge hits Ship' - it was the bridge driver made the mistake.
As far as I can see, it was the ship hitting a coral reef.
-
It is impossible to watch the TV clips of this event without feeling really really upset for and on behalf of the Islanders and their neighbors.
It was only a couple of weeks before spillages that the 38 Mauritians on board the Cunard ship Queen Victoria sent a plea world-wide on a YouTube Video - regarding 'Get us Home'. A few are in touch - and they are on the receiving end of very impressive and difficult reports from home. I heard a few days ago that they will fly out of the UK on August 29th.
There has been no shore leave since February in some cases, the rest have been on board since mid-March.
-
Isabelle - so correct!
Don't know what happened there - I watched the clip where a canal bridge was lowered down onto the ship, but the comment turned up here!
-
I'll try and find the original video to which you are referring and insert the link into your reply.
Later : Sorry, Skilly, I shall need your help to locate the video. Could you give me a clue please?
-
The MV Wakashio has now broken up, and the resulting damage is horrendous.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/africa/experts-sacramble-to-save-mauritius-s-wildlife-after-oil-tanker-splits-1.4331997?
We need to learn to live with less oil... leave it in the ground where it belongs and become more ecological. Rant over :) .
-
Its been horrific. It seemed like they were trying to alert "the world" for a while before it got worse...
We need to learn to live with less oil... leave it in the ground where it belongs and become more ecological. Rant over :) .
That rules flying out! And ships too. They haven't figured out an alternative yet.
-
That rules flying out! And ships too. They haven't figured out an alternative yet.
Yes, we are learning albeit slowly, and it took us a pandemic to teach us. I hope we shall not forget so quickly...
And by the way, there are ships running on gas... not sure though whether that is more ecological.
-
And ships too. They haven't figured out an alternative yet.
Well... at least as far as ships are concerned....
There is such a thing as tall ships! (https://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&tbm=isch&sxsrf=ALeKk02V0jL2zME3KWDwULiuAj93zrTHlw%3A1597781908769&source=hp&biw=1366&bih=657&ei=lDc8X4-uLKuJlwThs66QBQ&q=tall+ship&oq=tall+ship&gs_lcp=CgNpbWcQAzICCAAyAggAMgIIADICCAAyAggAMgIIADICCAAyAggAMgIIADICCAA6BAgjECc6CAgAELEDEIMBOgUIABCxA1CfCVj1FGDIHWgAcAB4AIABQIgBrAOSAQE5mAEAoAEBqgELZ3dzLXdpei1pbWc&sclient=img&ved=0ahUKEwiPyOS4yaXrAhWrxIUKHeGZC1IQ4dUDCAc&uact=5)
-
Just had a look at the photos being submitted for the December Competition.
With reference to Thomas Hypher's photo of my son showing his father the bridge wing controls - that could never have happened if it weren't for an accident at sea back on August 14th, 1984.
My ship was returning to Nelson, NZ, from Brisbane, Australia. The master decided to test the CP propeller off Nelson before picking up the pilot - I had just sat down for dinner, when the ship started shaking violently!
Raced down the engine room to find the propeller shaft doing wild gyrations by the O.D. Box (this was a 480 mm dia. shaft section, weighed 11 tonnes, and it was very unhappy).
Master wouldn't allow prop clutches to be pulled out (don't know what he was thinking??), so, as the ship has a constant-speed shaft (175 rpm only), the wild movements continued for another hour or so!
The attached photos show the culprit, and the damage. One 950 kg propeller blade had snapped off when Dennis went astern to check the propeller operation. The out-of-balance forces were close to 300 tonnes! The white metal stern tube bearings were destroyed due to the forces involved. The halves of the propeller hub were also warped beyond redemption! Stone Manganese Marine in the UK had to manufacture us a completely new propeller! And that new one continued to cause grief until being replaced by another manufacturers product in March 2004.
Anyway, instead of loading the ship for a Brisbane return run, we were towed to Wellington (124 miles) by another of the company's ships. Must have been very pleased to see my wife on arrival as, 9 months later the 'Propeller Twins' arrived (I still have old shipmates ring occasionally to see how the 'Propeller Twins' are getting on). The eldest twin is now a chartered accountant and Blair is C/Officer with Carnival UK. And during his training time in NZ, Blair actually did time on my old ship, whose mechanical failure led to his own existence!
The 42-year-old ship is now delivering bulk cement between Cyprus & Israel, and I still give technical advice to the operators as required.
The bald head in photo 2 is an ex-Queen Mary/Queen Elizabeth engineer with whom I still have regular contact (he'll be 90 next birthday). He has more blades on top than the propeller now!
-
It's crazy the master didn't take steps to avert the situation until it was way too late. Lucky things didn't end up even worse, along the lines of a stern gland leak if that was a risk in such a situation (I'm no engineer)?
It sure is a small world as I mentioned in the photo caption, and a happy outcome of the incident! Maybe I'll work with Blair one day on a Carnival UK ship, and we could recall QE2 and that bridge visit.
What's the name of the ship, if you're happy to say? She's lasted well!
-
Thomas, the ship has lasted well because it was built in Scotland! My first 4 ships were all built in Scotland, either in Leith (3) or Dundee (1). It is the last one, built in 1978/79, that is still running - the self-discharging bulk cement carrier mv Golden Bay. I joined it in 1979, the day it arrived in NZ. I lasted overhauled the engine/gearbox/propeller control systems in 2016. Caledon Shipyards built one vessel that stayed in operation for 94 years!
I have served on many Chinese/Malaysian/Vietnamese-built offshore vessels that have developed corrosion & structural problems after 12 months - crap materials & poor design. And when you get a systems problem - guess what - all the drawings are in the native language of the ship builder!
Give me a UK-built vessel any day, even if the propeller design is deficient!
-
What a story, Skilly! And I am glad to see the happy ending :) .
The ending was probably not quite so happy for the Master…
-
Brilliant story, Skilly, thanks for sharing
-
Great story and photos !
-
Isabelle, the master actually remained with the vessel for another 13 years! (Died in Tasmania in 2001)
Investigation revealed that when the ship was built in Dundee, the propeller manufacturer sent up the hub, shafting & blades to be installed at the required schedule time. The manufacturer knew that the blade seal landings on two of the blades were porous, and they intended to replace the blades with two new items before launching.
When the blades were ready a technician was sent up to change out the two defective blades. He removed these, and fitted the two new blades, then bolted the hub halves back together with the special-material 'unbreakable' bolts. (You have all heard of 'Unbeakable Bolts' before I assume). Unfortunately, he set the torque multi-plyer incorrectly, and instead of tightening each bolt to 4,745 ft lbs, the loading applied was far higher. This over-torqueing of the bolts eventuated in the bolt heads breaking off 4 of the 8 large 'Unbreakable' bolts.
When checked in August 1980 at the guarantee all appeared ok. But it was the bolt head failures that eventually led to the blade snapping off. When we dismantled the hub, crack testing revealed the other three blades were also cracked and about to break off too!
Also, once all the broken bits were flown back to UK, Lloyd's Register of Shipping also carried out metallurgy & stress tests on the remnants & re-examined the design. Once they determined the propeller design was defective a message was sent to all ships installed with SMM 'Seffle' design CP propellers, and many others were found with cracked blades as well (including a twin-screw naval vessel here in NZ)! So it wasn't the master's fault - he was being very prudent in testing the prop before we arrived in enclosed waters.
Photos below show other cracked blades. The shaft was ok, but the ship was laid up in NZ for 6 months awaiting a new prop. They bolted a plate across the empty stern tube (the bearings had been jacked out & also sent back to the UK for testing & re-metalling), scrubbed & painted the hull, then dropped us back in the water.
It was really tough - we (5 of us from each swing - everyone else was made redundant) lived in the St George Hotel in the city centre and just wandered down to the wharf each day.
I best not tell any of the stories of what happened while we stayed there!
Skilly
-
The MV Golden Ray that capsized in Brunswick Georgia is still awaiting removal. Plan is to cut her into sections and use a heavy lift vessel to remove them.
-
4000 'slightly damaged' Hyundais for sale, buyer take away!!!
-
This has been amazing to watch. They are using an enormous chain saw blade. First section is done.
-
There's a bit of a crisis looming in the Suez canal just now...
https://twitter.com/TankerTrackers/status/1374481630505541634
https://twitter.com/jsrailton/status/1374480234632736769
-
:o ...steering gear failure with little time to react?
Somewhat reminds me of Queen Mary's grounding in sight of John Brown's during her passage down the Clyde after fitting out. I hope there's no risk of Ever Given breaking her back either in this developing situation as that would be disastrous. I presume the Suez Canal isn't tidal like a river is?
-
It's been stuck for 13 hours.
This has HUGE implications if they can't shift it quickly...
-
Is she aground at both ends?
-
It appears to have suffered a blackout
https://gcaptain.com/grounded-mega-ship-blocking-suez-canal-in-both-directions/
-
It might be a good idea to not send ships through the suez that are longer than it is wide!
https://twitter.com/scottgoblue314/status/1374464881261301773
-
Ever Given is 59m wide and 400m long. Just at Suez limits.
-
Does anyone think it is not an accident but a grounding on purpose to block the Canal ?
-
"A gust of wind"...
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/africa/suez-canal-blocked-by-huge-container-ship-1.4518731?mode=amp
Makes one think of other huge ships…
-
Does anyone think it is not an accident but a grounding on purpose to block the Canal ?
Given the huge global significance of the canal, you have to wonder ...
I did see a droll comment last night saying they'd seen a headline about Suez and asking what the Brits had been up to now .. if you're too young you'll need to look that one up (or maybe you saw it in the first series of the crown!)
-
Does anyone think it is not an accident but a grounding on purpose to block the Canal ?
I don't think so in this case. Also, too many different groups (with different agendas and ideologies) would lose out in today's globalised economy so I don't think it would be in their interest. Having said that, of course non-state actors could always want to throw a spanner in the works via such an incident as this.
I did see a droll comment last night saying they'd seen a headline about Suez and asking what the Brits had been up to now .. if you're too young you'll need to look that one up (or maybe you saw it in the first series of the crown!)
Ah, the Suez Crisis of 1957 - anyone with an interest in history should know this regardless of age!
-
Ah, the Suez Crisis of 1957 - anyone with an interest in history should know this regardless of age!
Not in this country Thomas! I doubt many teens/twenties would even know where Suez is!
Sorry to be nasty to my adopted country, but it is a fact.
-
Not in this country Thomas! I doubt many teens/twenties would even know where Suez is!
Sorry to be nasty to my adopted country, but it is a fact.
Sadly I agree :( - Along with the widespread "sea blindness".
-
I've seen they're saying they've opened an older channel in order to ease congestion? I've looked at the satellite image and have no idea where it might be, any ideas?
They're saying they'll have dredgers on the scene later. The bulbous bow is shoved deep into the sand at the side.
-
I've seen they're saying they've opened an older channel in order to ease congestion? I've looked at the satellite image and have no idea where it might be, any ideas?
The only other channels I can see are those to the north of the Great Bitter Lake - maybe's it's to reduce the congestion caused by ships piling up on the southbound route?
What struck me as strange from the satellite imagery, given the heavy shipping traffic through the canal, is the use of temporary floating bridges alongside the usual ferry crossings. I presume they can be deconstructed or moved very quickly?
-
Thought I'd add a relevant photo from our wondeful gallery, from Andreas.
https://www.theqe2story.com/forum/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=5353#top_display_media
(https://www.theqe2story.com/forum/gallery/albums/userpics/10050/normal_2005_05_30_-_060711small.jpg)
-
https://twitter.com/AgenciesLeth/status/1374784828822917133
-
Does anyone think it is not an accident but a grounding on purpose to block the Canal ?
The thought had occurred to me, but as others have said I feel it's unlikely because of the lack of any claim of responsibility and, as has been pointed out, too many widely differing interests would be affected. There's also been relatively lower than normal tensions in the region recently, so there isn't that much of a m,otive for anyone either at present.
I don't believe the "gust of wind" excuse either as no other vessel was affected.
Yesterday they were blaming a steering gear failure, but two things count against that:
1) Nobody in their right mind would attempt to enter the canal unassisted if they had any dounts about the ability of their vessel to hold a course.
2) The vessel had enough control prior to entering the canal to be able to quite neatly draw rather rude images on the tracking traces.
-
Still stuck!
https://twitter.com/AgenciesLeth/status/1375098429911789574
-
Just looking at a 1956 Giles annual and found a very appropriate cartoon :D :D
-
Another theory!
-
I remember buying this T shirt in Alaska many years ago.... ;D
-
Probably, taking the on line course in navigation wasn't such a great idea.....
-
A closer look at the hydrodynamics :
https://www.ft.com/content/171c92ec-0a44-4dc5-acab-81ee2620d3c1?
-
Well, it is starting to happen…
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/africa/stranded-ever-given-ship-partially-refloated-and-straightened-in-suez-canal-1.4522768?
-
A closer look at the hydrodynamics :
https://www.ft.com/content/171c92ec-0a44-4dc5-acab-81ee2620d3c1?
This FT link is locked behind their paywall unfortunately.
A couple of videos which refer to the "bank effect" and other hydrodynamic issues by an experienced aviation pilot who provides excellent unbiased news reports (albeit usually on air accidents):
And a video by his marine equivalent who usually vlogs his life on the ocean waves (used as one of the sources by the above YouTuber as not a subject matter expert):
When ships are undergoing a RAS (Refuelling At Sea) a somewhat similar phenomenon to the "bank effect" is encountered apparently (the smaller ship more likely being sucked towards the larger ship if I understand it correctly).
-
She seems to still be stuck with no end in sight according to the salvage company. They're talking about unloading the bow so they can release it. There must be a real risk of accidentally damaging the ship... They've brought the stern around and it's a good job the bow swiveled and didn't just snap off or bend!
-
https://apnews.com/article/suez-canal-ship-freed-live-updates-48f856c9afed58feb908878c2a495287
Giant container ship that blocked Suez Canal set free
-
https://apnews.com/article/suez-canal-ship-freed-live-updates-48f856c9afed58feb908878c2a495287
Giant container ship that blocked Suez Canal set free
Fantastic news!
Hopefully they will learn some lessons from this???
-
What amazes me is the number of ships that were blocked due to this event. 369 of them, to be precise -- and that is without counting the Maersk and other ships that were quickly diverted via the Cape of Good Hope instead.
We seem to be so focused on cruise ships at this time of Covid limitations, that we risk overlooking the fact that much of the world's freight shipping (as well as ferries, short or long distance) continues in the meantime.
-
I was just having a look to see what ships were using the canal already and there we have.... just entering the stretch where Ever Given got stuck, at 400M long, the Ever Globe!! Fingers crossed!
-
Attached is a photo of a long line of ships full of crew who are very grateful to not be heading off round the Cape!
It's quite addictive watching the Suez canal, it's incredibly busy and fast moving.
-
Looks very impressive!
However, if I were crew, I would relish the detour around the African coast and the Cape :) .
-
I follow this guys vlog. Apart from the Evergiven he has some very interesting short videos on all sorts of shipboard life.
Sorry, just noticed that someone has posted one of the videos. As for not being an expert..........he certainley knows a lot.
-
What amazes me is the number of ships that were blocked due to this event. 369 of them, to be precise -- and that is without counting the Maersk and other ships that were quickly diverted via the Cape of Good Hope instead.
We seem to be so focused on cruise ships at this time of Covid limitations, that we risk overlooking the fact that much of the world's freight shipping (as well as ferries, short or long distance) continues in the meantime.
Don't forget that something like 10% of the worlds cargo of one kind or another goes through the Suez.
Another thing that this brought up......containers may be in short supply soon because of the amount of full ones that are stuck in the canal.
AND, the blame game has started. Ship owners blame the weather and a steering gear malfunction, canal boss says whoa hold on, somebody tried to blame the pilots. This is going to get nasty.And expensive!
-
Looks very impressive!
However, if I were crew, I would relish the detour around the African coast and the Cape :) .
Not if you were due on leave from Rotterdam or wherever in Europe these ships are heading you wouldn't!
There are no stops, for a 'tour' or a days 'sightseeing' on that route, apart from possibly a fuel stop in Cape Town or Durban. Resupplying and any crew changes are normally done by helicopter while still underway, stopping costs money.
I wonder if the owners of those ships that have started the 'detour' have rued their decision, taken in haste possibly!
-
I follow this guys vlog. Apart from the Evergiven he has some very interesting short videos on all sorts of shipboard life.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltdHRdtEHE4
www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CIgHnH-1zo
Sorry, just noticed that someone has posted one of the videos. As for not being an expert..........he certainley knows a lot.
Thank you (both) for posting those - I just got lost in his videos for a while!
This one is fab - he takes you on board during a Suez voyage on his ship.
-
I follow this guys vlog. Apart from the Evergiven he has some very interesting short videos on all sorts of shipboard life.
Sorry, just noticed that someone has posted one of the videos. As for not being an expert..........he certainley knows a lot.
He is the maritime expert I referred to above! He's a chief engineer. The other YouTuber I linked to above him in my previous post is a former military and now commercial airline pilot who used the chief engineer as one of his sources given this incident was out of his usual remit. I have followed the excellent vlogs and reports of both for a while now.
-
What amazes me is the number of ships that were blocked due to this event. 369 of them, to be precise -- and that is without counting the Maersk and other ships that were quickly diverted via the Cape of Good Hope instead.
We seem to be so focused on cruise ships at this time of Covid limitations, that we risk overlooking the fact that much of the world's freight shipping (as well as ferries, short or long distance) continues in the meantime.
We also mustn't forget all the repurposed passenger airliners and pre-existing cargo airliners that have been transporting PPE internationally as well as carrying on with other normal cargo services. A look at the flight trackers still shows quite a bit of this traffic. For example: a few former passenger, ex-Virgin Atlantic A340-600s have made my local airport (Hurn/Bournemouth airport) home during this whole pandemic, going all over the world collecting and delivering PPE and I presume also helping to distribute vaccines now. I live on the flight path and they are an impressive and wonderful sight and sound.
-
OK, they found the person responsible!
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/14495350/suez-chaos-train-crash-blamed-move-body-king/
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/suez-canal-crisis-ended-time-063423949.html
-
Another video on the Ever Given incident from the aviation pilot, with direct input from maritime experts probably including the chief engineer who made the other videos in previous posts on this forum thread. I think at least some of the issues with the size of these sorts of container ships also apply to the largest cruise ships (particularly regarding windage!).
He also briefly mentions why she was going at 13 knots through the canal (as do other large ships) - to maintain steerage among other reasons as a lot of conversations online seem to have overlooked. I suspect this is also the same reason (among the others he mentions) for ships with traditional rudder and propeller arrangements speeding up when negotiating the sandbanks in the Solent via the famous "reverse S" manoeuvre. Ships speed up noticeably, around Fawley/Calshot Spit, upon leaving Southampton Water where I believe the speed limit is 8 knots for large ships. Having said this though, would this apply at all to ships with and steered by pods, such as most contemporary cruise ships and QM2?
-
A good explanation of "that" controversial AIS track, by the chief engineer:
All in all it seems the crew of Ever Given have been unlucky on all counts, and one has to feel sorry for them.
-
Another update on Ever Given's situation, from the chief engineer:
-
I was trying to find out how many containers Ever given carried............wow! what a can of worms that opened up on Google!
"Ship is owned by Walmart and the Clinton Foundation"
"Weapons of mass destruction found and offloaded by Navy Seals!"
"Trafficked children, some dead found in containers"
Good Lord!
-
I was trying to find out how many containers Ever given carried............wow! what a can of worms that opened up on Google!
"Ship is owned by Walmart and the Clinton Foundation"
"Weapons of mass destruction found and offloaded by Navy Seals!"
"Trafficked children, some dead found in containers"
Good Lord!
Ah yes, gotta love those conspiracy theorists. ::)
The internet can be such a blessing AND a curse.
-
I wonder what the state of her perishable cargo is now? Probably doesn't bear thinking about! This is yet another case, sadly, of the crew being the pawns and scapegoats until proven innocent or guilty in an unbiased (if such a thing exists) official investigation.
-
There is another container ship in trouble at the moment... the crew have been safely evacuated.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-asia-57244173
-
Iran's largest military ship, I hesitate to say warship as she was primarily an auxiliary, caught fire and sank the other day. IRIS Kharg. Apparently the fire started in her engine room. She was the longest lived Ol-class fleet tanker, her three sisters serving in the RFA, including going south in 82, and having long and successful lives of their own - being fondly remembered by their crews from what I've read over the years.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ol-class_tanker_(1965)
As an aside, I was interested to see the Iranian Navy still operates several frigates of a Vospers commercial export design related to the Type 21 Frigate. They lost one in Operation Praying Mantis in 1988 and another was severely damaged at the same time but was repaired and is still around today. They have imitated the same design in their first class of domestically produced frigates. Pakistan has started phasing out the surviving Type 21 frigates they bought from us, with at least one having already been expended as a target in exercises. The number of warships of late 60s/70s/and Falklands War vintage is starting to dwindle even more, with none of the remaining set to be preserved to mark that eventful time period. It is a travesty HMS Plymouth didn't survive as a museum ship to mark that eventful time period.
-
Sadly Thomas it's a fact of life that everything, ships included however 'famous' they are, have a 'shelf life' beyond which they become too expensive to upgrade/modernise.
Of my ships RN/MN; HMS Nubian was blasted out of the water as a target in 1987, HMS Phoebe was sold for scrap in 1992, HMS Bulwark was scrapped in 1984, RFA Tarbetness was bought by USN and then used for target practice in 2009, SS Oceanic was sold to China for scrap in 2012, Vistafjord went for scrap, Pacific Sun [rightly] went for scrap in China and QE2 - well we all know about her!
The only ships in have worked on that are still operating around the globe are; QM2, QV, Coral Princess, Sun Princess, Seabourn Odyssey & Sojourn, RVS/Seabourn Sun,Prinsendam lives on but in Europe as Amera, Seabourn Spirit is now Star Breeze with Windstar.
Overall not a good record for 'choice' of ships with longevity!
-
I almost forgot to put Ocean Village into the negative column. She only went for scrap on 12th April 2021 at that big 'dry dock in the sky' that is Alang!
-
Sadly Thomas it's a fact of life that everything, ships included however 'famous' they are, have a 'shelf life' beyond which they become too expensive to upgrade/modernise.
Indeed...it's the harsh reality for those of us who get sentimental about ships. Everything and everyone has their time, even museum ships with their own set of issues such as when investment and politics no longer go in their favour - think Queen Mary, HMS Plymouth, FNS Colbert, and no doubt plenty of others...
-
Meanwhile in Georgia the MV Golden Ray car carrier is being chopped into 6000 ton slices and being barged away to the scrappers. You can see some of her cargo in the photo, anybody wanna very low mileage slightly soggy Hundai? ;D
-
Thar Golden Ray is very interesting. They are basically using a chain saw to cut her up!
-
https://twitter.com/jsrailton/status/1455686896324124679?t=kYyxtnJ-Ca7tPcTJEbjtwQ
-
That is a heck of a "ding" considering the canal wall is basically dirt!
-
I just can't believe such things can happen:
https://www.maritime-executive.com/article/errant-cruise-ship-forces-space-x-to-scrub-launch-at-cape-canaveral
-
I just can't believe such things can happen:
https://www.maritime-executive.com/article/errant-cruise-ship-forces-space-x-to-scrub-launch-at-cape-canaveral
I was watching it live on SpaceX's YouTube channel and was equally shocked given that plenty of notice is given and the no go zone is clearly defined. I have never known this to happen before with a cruise ship and I wonder if heads will roll, metaphorically speaking, because of it?
Thankfully this Falcon 9 launch was successful on the third attempt (first attempt was scrubbed due to incoming bad weather) at 23:11 GMT/UTC last night and even, this time, included wonderful shots from the ground of main engine cut off and the staging of the rocket - not to mention it was a return to launch site landing for the first stage of the Falcon 9 which is not common.
Here's a link to the SpaceX livestream (in 4K) from the successful launch:
-
Sorry, QE 2 did that back in the 70's!
Difference was it was planned. Got to the site, great! No other vessels about, we have the area to ourselves..... only when 2 Coast Guard vessels and a couple of police vessels approached with lights and sirens, and a few terse words on the radio, did QE 2 realize that maybe there was a reason for the lack of boats!
Launch was eventually cancelled for weather reasons!
-
was it an Apollo launch?
-
I believe it was an Apollo. Mid 70's maybe?
-
Apollo-Soyuz if mid 1970s?
-
A couple of years back when NZ's first space-launch company, Rocket Lab, started up, the first launch date & time was notified to all authorities concerned, but Maritime Safety forgot to put it out on a Notice to Mariners.
When the first commercial rocket lifted off from the end of the Mahia Peninsula in November 2017, the cement ship 'Aotearoa Chief', was right underneath it, heading for Napier! If the first stage had failed, the AC would have ended up with extra 'deck cargo!
Because they didn't know about the launch, none of the crew were on deck to watch it!
Rocket Lab have now done 23 launches and put 109 satellites into orbit so far.
And haven't hit any ships yet!
-
I have just watched on youtube, a documentary about the salvaging of a car carrier called the Tricolor.
Absolutely amazing!!! They cut the ship into , I think it was seven pieces, using a flexible hacksaw blade (that's the easiest way to describe it) But all done underwater!
Amazing and fascinating.
-
Fascinating indeed! I have just watched it through, such a difficult challenge, so well done and so well documented. Thank you for the recommendation, Rod!
-
Anyone want a slightly singed Porsche? :D
Another Car carrier in trouble.
https://www.foxnews.com/auto/burning-cargo-ship-full-of-porsches-adrift-in-atlantic-ocean?obOrigUrl=true&ucid=XTuNP7My (https://www.foxnews.com/auto/burning-cargo-ship-full-of-porsches-adrift-in-atlantic-ocean?obOrigUrl=true&ucid=XTuNP7My)
-
And...
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/passengers-evacuated-from-greek-ferry-as-fire-breaks-out-at-night/ar-AAU1UT8?ocid=uxbndlbing
-
A near mishap during the ongoing "Storm Eunice":
-
And there is this one that was all over Facebook.
What gets me is the passengers just sitting there for a moment while their feet get wet!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6uuGWCUuOc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6uuGWCUuOc)
-
Anyone want a slightly singed Porsche? :D
Another Car carrier in trouble.
https://www.foxnews.com/auto/burning-cargo-ship-full-of-porsches-adrift-in-atlantic-ocean?obOrigUrl=true&ucid=XTuNP7My (https://www.foxnews.com/auto/burning-cargo-ship-full-of-porsches-adrift-in-atlantic-ocean?obOrigUrl=true&ucid=XTuNP7My)
Its quite interesting. There is speculation that the electric cars on board have either caused the fire in the first place, or made matters worse once it started, because a battery fire cannot be put out in the normal ways. I wonder if these car transporter ships have been altered to deal with the very different technology employed by the cargo now? With thousands of cars on board, car fired must have happened previously, and been successfully dealt with surely?
-
Its quite interesting. There is speculation that the electric cars on board have either caused the fire in the first place, or made matters worse once it started, because a battery fire cannot be put out in the normal ways. I wonder if these car transporter ships have been altered to deal with the very different technology employed by the cargo now? With thousands of cars on board, car fired must have happened previously, and been successfully dealt with surely?
From my practical firefighting training for this very purpose, the shipping industry (and the rest of the world for that matter) is currently playing catch up, as whilst there are general means of sort of dealing with Lithium battery fires, the specialist means of dealing with them (specialist extinguishing agents) are still under development.
The means of dealing with these sorts of fires is by smothering and the niche dry powder agents for doing this most effectively for this type of fire may well require major rethinking of how they are deployed.
No sane person is going to get near a 2000 Celsius or so Lithium battery fed fire that is rapidly spreading within the confined environment onboard ship with a small dry powder hand portable extinguisher or a wheeled larger portable dry powder extinguisher (how dry powder has been deployed to date on ships) given they would be of little effect and therefore wouldn't buy enough time for more established means of directly attacking the fire as these portable extinguishers are meant to do for other types of fire (even fuel fires). Would it be feasible to run specialist dry powder just for dealing with Lithium battery fires through existing sprinkler systems or existing fire fighting hoses and hydrants or not? I don't think it would be, so the problem of tackling the fire properly remains and needs to be solved somehow, preferably without causing further danger to those tackling these sorts of fires, such as risk of electrocution or zero visibility or asphyxiation - the middle of those three being a major issue with deploying dry powder in a confined space such as on a ship.
Having said all this there is always boundary cooling and moving combustible items away from the boundary of the fire and just letting the fire burn itself out - not ideal but better than nothing.
-
Well, well, well. Does anyone detect a trend here?
https://abcnews.go.com/US/cargo-ship-stuck-marylands-chesapeake-bay-presenting-coast/story?id=83455048
-
Yes Rod, and to me it indicates that crews today do not appear to be as highly trained and competent in their jobs as crews were a few decades back. Too much reliance on GPS, Satnav, and instrumentation, and not enough plain old Mark 1 Eyeball work, touchy-feely around the machinery, and intuition.
How on earth does one run a ship ashore with all those devices operating to keep you from NOT running ashore?
Don't they learn anything when training in the shore simulators?
When I went to sea, to become an engineer you first did a 4-5 year apprenticeship in a heavy marine workshop, repairing all types of ships that came into your port. When not on the ships you were in the workshop operating machine tools, welding, rebuilding machinery, or at night school learning more about metallurgy, stress & strain, properties of materials, etc. Or you did a cadetship with a shipping line, which supposedly covered all the above, but one didn't have the machine tools or the workshop.
Today, the trainees spend 14 months at sea with their 'Work books' (asking as many questions as they can to fill in the answers), plus 17 months in the classroom ashore, What they learn aboard their ship depends very much on the attitude of the person the trainee is asking the question of. As we know, some seafarers will tell the trainees exactly where to go, and stop pestering me! (Put very politely!)
Perhaps, for the safety of other vessels around the world, the Evergreen Line ships should become 'Ever Stopped', until their crew training systems and certification have been checked to see how many 'pirate tickets' they are employing, and to see why their STCW seems to be deficient.
-
to me it indicates that crews today do not appear to be as highly trained
Very good point Skilly, from my experience the last 15 years or so this is common in all corners of the trade world from Plumbing, electrical right through to the service industry, bars and restaurants etc. Here in the US either too much reliance on trade schools (from personal experience often a scam!) or no training at all! Bring back the apprentice program!!!!
-
And I have to follow up with what the hack is going on with the US navy, to darned busy teaching "Social Awareness" classes at the expense of basic ship operation, hence the various accidents they have experienced over the last few years....Oh I know, probably being too political here! :D
-
Part of Thomas's post read;
Having said all this there is always boundary cooling and moving combustible items away from the boundary of the fire and just letting the fire burn itself out - not ideal but better than nothing.
Having personal experience of several onboard fires in my life at sea, [24 RN/RM & 20 MN] i would say that the two points made are very important. Basically a ship is just a 6 sided metal box, as is a fire in any specific compartment, and as such heat*, part of the 3 components of a fire - 'a source of ignition*, oxygen & a fuel' - needs to be restricted if possible, but certainly reduced at the very least. Hence Boundary Cooling is an important element of fighting any onboard fire. Having been involved in Fire Party Duties all my MN life i have been part of all the different 'coal face' parts of Fire Fighting, from On Scene Commander to Boundary Cooling, Area Control & Induction Training. Sadly, two of the incidents i was involved in resulted in fatalities which believe me is not an easy thing to face. So you have to have a bit of a 'sense of humour' to get you through what can be a long incident. One of the ways when i was with Princess [Sun Princess & Coral Princess] my Boundary Cooling Party used was 'singing', our favourite was; "We put the COOL in Boundary Cooling", in a semi Reggie style! Always raised a smile.
-
What they learn aboard their ship depends very much on the attitude of the person the trainee is asking the question of. As we know, some seafarers will tell the trainees exactly where to go, and stop pestering me! (Put very politely!)
This part is sooooo true!
When I was doing my year at sea, I was very, very fortunate in my mentors. On the Franconia most of the Engineers were extremely generous with their time and knowledge One in particular was renowned throughout the fleet for his "back of a fag packet" drawings.
After I had been on the QE2 for a while I realized that I wanted to go the Hotel Service side of ships engineering, as I knew I did not want to spend my whole life at sea. Again , there were a couple of Engineers that were very generous with their time and knowledge.
I am proud to say that I am "Bob Dolley trained"!
-
Yes Rod, and to me it indicates that crews today do not appear to be as highly trained and competent in their jobs as crews were a few decades back. Too much reliance on GPS, Satnav, and instrumentation, and not enough plain old Mark 1 Eyeball work, touchy-feely around the machinery, and intuition.
How on earth does one run a ship ashore with all those devices operating to keep you from NOT running ashore?
Don't they learn anything when training in the shore simulators?
When I went to sea, to become an engineer you first did a 4-5 year apprenticeship in a heavy marine workshop, repairing all types of ships that came into your port. When not on the ships you were in the workshop operating machine tools, welding, rebuilding machinery, or at night school learning more about metallurgy, stress & strain, properties of materials, etc. Or you did a cadetship with a shipping line, which supposedly covered all the above, but one didn't have the machine tools or the workshop.
Today, the trainees spend 14 months at sea with their 'Work books' (asking as many questions as they can to fill in the answers), plus 17 months in the classroom ashore, What they learn aboard their ship depends very much on the attitude of the person the trainee is asking the question of. As we know, some seafarers will tell the trainees exactly where to go, and stop pestering me! (Put very politely!)
Perhaps, for the safety of other vessels around the world, the Evergreen Line ships should become 'Ever Stopped', until their crew training systems and certification have been checked to see how many 'pirate tickets' they are employing, and to see why their STCW seems to be deficient.
Our lecturers at Warsash have stressed the importance of not getting tunnel visioned with the bridge equipment and to look out the bloody windows! The mark 1 eyeball is an underrated tool! We have studied several shipping accidents (recent ones) as a class with our lecturers to avoid repeating the same common mistakes. We don't use the bridge simulators until much later in the 5 phase cadetship - instead spending time on a real bridge first including needing to gain a steering certificate from at least 10 hours on the helm in a variety of circumstances.
Us deckies here in the UK have to accrue 12 months sea time within the 3 year cadetship, and also have a work book. Accruing even the 12 months sea time is proving tricky at the moment with the consequences of COVID affecting several intakes of cadets now.
I am very keen to get to sea, to gain the real, hands on experience for which there is no substitute and just to be underway again on a ship! It'll help in the subject areas I've struggled in by putting what I've learnt into practice so it hopefully becomes second nature. We have also been told the cadet experience will vary depending on the ship for the reasons already mentioned in this topic, but to persevere if we get fobbed off (obviously without committing social suicide on the ship)!
Part of Thomas's post read;
Having said all this there is always boundary cooling and moving combustible items away from the boundary of the fire and just letting the fire burn itself out - not ideal but better than nothing.
Having personal experience of several onboard fires in my life at sea, [24 RN/RM & 20 MN] i would say that the two points made are very important. Basically a ship is just a 6 sided metal box, as is a fire in any specific compartment, and as such heat*, part of the 3 components of a fire - 'a source of ignition*, oxygen & a fuel' - needs to be restricted if possible, but certainly reduced at the very least. Hence Boundary Cooling is an important element of fighting any onboard fire. Having been involved in Fire Party Duties all my MN life i have been part of all the different 'coal face' parts of Fire Fighting, from On Scene Commander to Boundary Cooling, Area Control & Induction Training. Sadly, two of the incidents i was involved in resulted in fatalities which believe me is not an easy thing to face. So you have to have a bit of a 'sense of humour' to get you through what can be a long incident. One of the ways when i was with Princess [Sun Princess & Coral Princess] my Boundary Cooling Party used was 'singing', our favourite was; "We put the COOL in Boundary Cooling", in a semi Reggie style! Always raised a smile.
One sure does feel a lot of responsibility when part of the on-scene command team even in training! Not to mention it being drilled into us to check our air frequently when firefighting, crouching to avoid the worst of any steam (which the firefighting gear doesn't stop scolding you), checking door temperatures before entry into a space etc etc etc. During the training we had a graphic demonstration with a marshmallow on a stick near the ceiling of why one stays low where possible when in the same space as the fire - nothing like a practical demonstration to make a point clear!
-
About 20 years ago just off Port Everglades, a small (80,000 t6ons) had a fire in the laundry which spread up another 2 decks to the mooring deck aft. Of course it was shown live, on tv. Ship was about 2 miles offshore.
There were 2 hose parties aft, along with 2 tugs and a small US Coast Guard vessel all spraying water down the rounded part of the stern.
The newsman kept on commenting "I don't know why they are4 doing that? I spent 20 years in the US Navy and have never seen that!"
I was shouting at the tv "Boundary cooling you idiot!"
He didn't hear me.
When the Cunard Ambassador went on fire, Cunard staff had to beg the US Coast Guard to stop pouring water on the ship indiscriminately. The ship was beginning to take on a big list and was in danger of foundering because of the water.
For those non-nautical people among you the water that isn't turned into steam goes down and has to be pumped out. You can put too much water on the ship.
Look what happened to the USS Lafayette in NY harbour. Formerly known as The Normandie.
-
Around 1978[ish] HMS Bristol had what started as a small fire onboard but, due to what Rod describes above, she was very nearly capsized due to the amount of water being used to fight the fire, not being less than the amount of water being pumped out.
The RN learnt an important lesson that day which would stand them in good stead 4 years later.
-
My son stayed on Bristol, when he visited UK with the Sea Cadets.
-
My son stayed on Bristol, when he visited UK with the Sea Cadets.
Yes, she was used as an accommodation ship in Portsmouth, berthed at HMS Excellent/Whale Island, mainly for SCC use, until she was placed on the 'Disposal list' in Dec 2020, but she had been unused since COVID first took hold earlier that year.
-
From Thomas -
Our lecturers at Warsash have stressed the importance of not getting tunnel visioned with the bridge equipment and to look out the bloody windows!
This is becoming very common, had a contractor out to the house the other day (there are only 5 on my street) and he went down two wrong driveways before coming down mine. He said his GPS sent him the wrong directions.....My mailbox is right next to my driveway and has great big brass numbers on it....and it is the first house on the street!!!!
A more serious issue is in the airline industry, one of my customers is an ex Boeing 737 test pilot. His view is that if you are going to call yourself a 'Pilot' fly the damned aircraft! There is way too much dependence on automation, he said the much publicized 737 Max crashes could have been easily prevented as he was very familiar with the systems.
-
One thing I overlooked in my little 'spout' below, is how much time seafarers of today have to spend doing paperwork!
Since ISM was introduced in 2000, the amount of time required to be spent on record-keeping for bunkers, MARPOL, Port State inspections, crew training exercises & Certificate of Competence validities, cargo records, ballast exchanges, Planned Maintenance System records, medical locker records, critical machinery records, etc, etc, has multiplied to a huge degree, mainly to keep an auditable record of events in case of an incident. The Voyage Data Recorder also records the telegraphs & movements, ship position, speed & course, and numerous other bits besides.
30 Years ago, most of this paperwork requirement didn't exist to anywhere near the volumes required today. And nowadays, the companies who require all this paperwork to be completed are also making it their prime goal to reduce the ship's manning! So who does all this extra work! The watchkeeper is not meant to be doing this stuff - he is meant to be on watch! However, to keep up with the ever-increasing demand to have records, it is invariably the watchkeeper who ends up doing it, which takes his concentration off his prime reason for being on watch!
I have written a couple of SOPEPS (Ships Oil Pollution Emergency Plan) during the 1990's, but I was banged up at the time with a couple of crushed vertebrae so couldn't pass the sea-going medical anyway. It kept my mind working during the long days of concentration, and I was quite chuffed to receive them back from Lloyd's of London with 'Approved - No Alterations Required' stamped through them. For someone on the ships to have done them while operating would have been impossible.
So, what I am emphasising is that there are many more distractions for watchkeepers today - maybe too many. In good daylight conditions, some ships now operate with only the OOW on the bridge (cargo vessels I mean - I have yet to see this practice on any passenger vessel I have been on). If the OOW falls over & becomes incapable, who will know, unless there is a dead man system installed? The only 3 ships I have been on with Dead Man systems installed, they had been deactivated! Go Figure?
-
So, what I am emphasising is that there are many more distractions for watchkeepers today - maybe too many. In good daylight conditions, some ships now operate with only the OOW on the bridge (cargo vessels I mean -
That's a bit unfair Skilly ! At least some of the cargo lines allow a Labrador as an assistant.
English Channel 1978 I believe?
-
Dead Man systems
, very interesting Skilly.
I have a pal who is a freight train diver for CSX in the USA, apparently the trains are so automated that his basic function is to press a Dead Man's button every couple of minutes to let the locomotive know he is still there!
On the other hand though, due to the computerized control and accurate mapping of the lines and measurement of freight loading, CSX just announced that the effective fuel consumption allows them to move 1 Ton of freight 1000 Miles per gallon of fuel burned.....very impressive given that mileage per gallon was 400 only a few years ago.
Just did some quick math based on QE2 fuel consumption at 50ft per gallon....comes out to moving 1 Ton of QE2 500 miles per gallon....probably got my math messed up :D :D
-
My comment below about Dead Man buttons has reminded me of an incident that happened when I asked my engineers to check out the Dead Man System on one of the three near-identical ships we had on a pipelaying contract. The three ships were all fitted with 3 X Cummins QSK60 diesel generators, and two were running at the time this event happened.
My 1st engineer had very good electrical knowledge, and he powered up the system, then checked all the DM button boxes to ensure the circuits had energised. Unfortunately (or, maybe fortunately - depends on how one looks at it!), he decided to press the big red DM button located on the bulkhead at the rear of the engine room. There was a hell of a graunching noise, then momentary silence, then one almighty bang as a heavy Ingersoll Rand starter motor hit the control room bulkhead outside, right beside where I was standing inside! It then dropped to the deck with another loud bang!
Once everyone had checked their nickers, we slowly deduced what had happened. Pressing the DM button had opened the air start solenoid valve on No.2 Generator, which happened to be on full load (2,500 kW or thereabouts, at 1800 rpm) at the time. The air start motor tried to engage with the ring gear, but only partially succeeded before the mounting bolts fractured and the entire assemble had been launched over the top of No.3 Generator, before it hit the bulkhead about 6-feet up, beside where I was standing!
We dare not stop the generator as we had no spare air start motor, and the ring gear was a bit stuffed in places. I didn't take the attached photos until we reached port 2 weeks later and the machine could be stopped.
The ring gear also had a crack in it, so the 5.8-tonne generator had to be removed before the ring gear could be replaced on the engine flywheel. We also had to remove the 5.8-tonne generator on the next door No.3 Genset first, to give us room to remove the No.2 generator from No.2 Genset. We decided this Dead Man button had been wired up to create dead men, not keep the engineer awake! The system had obviously never been tested on sea trials test schedules (and the ship was less than a year old!), but it was built in China!
Photo 01 - The damaged ring gear.
Photo 02 - The damaged starter motor pinion.
Photo 03 - 5.8-tonne generator to be shifted.
Photo 04 - 7.5 ft high Cummins QSK60i
Photo 05 - My bridge window - it shattered in the mid-summer tropical heat one day. There was not enough allowance in the window
framing to allow for heat expansion, so it gave up and broke itself! It was 8-foot high x 4-foot wide, and took nearly 2
months for a replacement to arrive. I had to breathe on the master's right ear all during that time while I drove my 250-
tonne winches while looking through his window! Thereafter it was called the Chinese S.E.W.! (Self-Exploding-Window!)
-
My bridge window - it shattered in the mid-summer tropical heat one day.
Whilst I was working on the old Discovery Sun out of Ft Lauderdale we had a large window in the Casino shatter like that, went off with a heck of a BANG! Mind you it was about 98 F outside and the AC was blasting at about 60, I must say that old ship had the best AC I've ever experienced..... :D
-
From a News article regarding the car carrier that caught fire....
If anyone with a deep sea submersible is shopping for a flood-damaged car, we know where you can find a few.
The manifest for the Felicity Ace cargo ship that caught fire and sank in the Atlantic Ocean off the Azores islands in March has been posted online, Top Gear first discovered.
Nearly 4,000 vehicles primarily from the Volkswagen Group were onboard when the ship went down in two mile-deep water a few days after the fire and its crew had been rescued without significant injury.
The brands that lost the most vehicles were Audi, Porsche and Volkswagen, but a few rarities were also in the mix, including six Lamborghini Aventador Ultimaes that were among the last of the discontinued model built. This led Lamborghini to restart production to fulfill the orders.
There were also a 2015 Ford Mustang and 2018 Nissan Versa Note being shipped home by members of the U.S. Air Force stationed in Germany and a 1996 Honda Prelude.
According to a Facebook post by the Honda's owner, the Prelude was the 65th of the rare high performance SiR model built that year.
Unfortunately, unlike the automakers who were able to write off the losses of their new vehicles, the Prelude owner said he isn't being compensated due to complications with the insurance coverage, but remains optimistic about getting his hands on one of the cars someday.
"I have chosen to not stress, worry or dwell on that news. I am sad I lost something I was looking forward to for sooo many years. I don't know how I will recover from the expenses lost, time wasted or where I'll find the next SiR, I will find another one to restore no matter what.
The cause of the Felicity Ace fire is still unknown and there are no current plans to try to reach the ship.
-
That's the loss of a lot of cars, and a big insurance claim!
We had a P registration Honda Prelude, but I think it was the model before the one that was lost. I will look for pictures and information.
-
I love mechanical descriptions for events such as Skilly's Self Exploding Window... This one tickled the funny bone.
On this day: April 7th 1999 – A Boeing KC-135R-BN Stratotanker, 57-1418, c/n 17549, of the 153rd Air Refueling Squadron, Air National Guard, was undergoing maintenance at the Oklahoma ALC, Tinker AFB, Oklahoma, when the cabin was over-pressurized during a test and ruptured, tearing a massive 35 foot hole in the aft fuselage, allowing tail section to commence a self-executed rapid kinetic disassembly, and unceremoniously dropped to the ground.
-
Oh, my.......
-
Your tax dollars at work!
-
Re Chris's flaccid aeroplane- I read the reports going way back.
Turns out contractors had removed the fuselage pressure relief valves from the undercarriage wheel wells, and inserted wooden plugs while they took the valves away for testing, but wrote nothing about the replaced safety devices in the A/C log book. Another contractor then carried out the fuselage pressure testing, but couldn't obtain the correct gear for the job, so, rather than waiting, he inserted a pressure gauge 'from his own kit'! This was an uncalibrated gauge, with no peg to stop the indicator needle from rotating numerous times. Nobody knows how many times the needle went around the clock while the A/C was being pressurised from it's own compressors.
Two aircraft crewmen were aboard while the aircraft was pressurised - after the tail exploded, they emerged from the aircraft with bleeding ears & noses! They were in a position to stop the test at any time, but didn't!
The USAF have kept the reports & photos to help educate others on how 'Not to pressure test the fuselage'!
I used to carry out low-pressure tests like this to test the welds on the fuel & ballast tanks on superyachts we were building. I caught one engineer using his own 'doctored' gauges for these tests. I smashed all his gauges, then dismissed him! He was trying to hide the fact that most of his team couldn't weld properly!
Getting a tick on the test schedule sheet was more important to him than the safety of the ship!
-
Wow Skilly, Interesting stuff, kind of worrying that the US Air Force uses subcontractors to maintain their planes. Makes you wonder what’s going on in the civilian air travel industry, although it has apparently been a very safe few years for flying.
-
Well good old Carnival are in the news again! This time for a huge punch up in the Disco!
https://www.foxnews.com/us/cruise-ship-brawl-nyc-carnival-coast-guard (https://www.foxnews.com/us/cruise-ship-brawl-nyc-carnival-coast-guard)
When I cruised on Carnival a few years ago (Never Again) I was surprised by the number of security personnel onboard....
now I know why!
-
Not a disaster yet, but one waiting to happen, which the UN is now crowdfunding to prevent. I heard a radio report about this today, but when I searched the Internet, this is the most recent article I was able to find. Plenty of older articles there, warning of the same disaster, even years ago.
https://news.un.org/en/story/2022/04/1115932
The ironically named ship FSO Safer has been abandoned off the coast of Yemen for the past six years. It contains 1.1 million barrels of oil, which would cause a huge environmental disaster, if the ship disintegrated or sank or exploded, any of which could happen any day now.
And here is a more recent update, showing that the UN has managed to raise some funds for the complicated operation needed.
https://news.un.org/en/story/2022/05/1117982
-
Well good old Carnival are in the news again! This time for a huge punch up in the Disco!
https://www.foxnews.com/us/cruise-ship-brawl-nyc-carnival-coast-guard (https://www.foxnews.com/us/cruise-ship-brawl-nyc-carnival-coast-guard)
When I cruised on Carnival a few years ago (Never Again) I was surprised by the number of security personnel onboard....
now I know why!
I could never vacation with Carnival. Simply put I find the atmosphere of Carnival ships to be too much like an amusement park. And then of course there's instances like the one you sent to us ;D
-
Well good old Carnival are in the news again! This time for a huge punch up in the Disco!
https://www.foxnews.com/us/cruise-ship-brawl-nyc-carnival-coast-guard (https://www.foxnews.com/us/cruise-ship-brawl-nyc-carnival-coast-guard)
When I cruised on Carnival a few years ago (Never Again) I was surprised by the number of security personnel onboard....
now I know why!
You've obviously never 'cruised' in Australia then, on a ship with 1300 passengers we had 27 Security Personnel and there were 2 x Security Officers, one on days [0700-1900] the other on nights [1900-0700]. Then, on the two sea days between Vanuatu and Sydney, it was drink as much as 'you' can with nowhere to 'off load' the unruly..
-
Just goes to show how much cruising has 'Gone to the dogs!', great shame, used to be a very classy form of travel.
-
P&O have had an accident at Calais this weekend involving a loaded coach nearly getting crushed between a linkspan and the top of the bow apperture on the Pride of Kent.
This could very easily have been a lot worse.
https://twitter.com/SimonJonesNews/status/1556193189622603776?s=20&t=LKm-OPEsyHtH3_Q3YqmFYw
This is what happened to a coach on a P&O ferry yesterday. The company describes it as a ‘minor incident’, saying one passenger grazed their leg.
-
Peter that looks like it could have been a very nasty accident. Glad to hear there were not more injuries.
-
P&O have had an accident at Calais this weekend involving a loaded coach nearly getting crushed between a linkspan and the top of the bow apperture on the Pride of Kent.
Every now and then a Ferry gets hungry and needs a snack ;D
-
Peter that looks like it could have been a very nasty accident. Glad to hear there were not more injuries.
Very true.
I've never heard of anything like that happening before anywhere.
-
Major rescue operation at Leith, Edinburgh after ship dislodged from dry dock.
STV News:
https://news.stv.tv/east-central/major-rescue-operation-as-ship-tips-after-dislodging-from-dry-dock-in-leith-edinburgh
The ship, RV Petrel, is a research vessel owned by the estate of Microsoft co-founder Paul Allen.
Emergency crews were called to the scene at Imperial Dock in Leith at around 8.29am on Wednesday, March 22.
The massive ship on a dry dock became dislodged from its holding, and images show it lurched towards its righthand side.
-
The BBC reports multiple injuries as a result of the Research ship Petrel tipping over at the Leith Dock. At least 21 people taken to hospital. Local people had been asked not to attend the Edinburgh Royal Infirmary as staff were dealing with the injured.
You can read more details on on BBC article:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-65038617
-
An interesting video with more information on the RV Petrel accident. Fortunately many of the injured have now left hospital and luckily there have been no deaths.
-
Thanks Thomas
it was interesting to hear thoughts on what could have caused the incident and possible way to get the ship upright again.
This must have been a terrifying experience for those on board. Good to hear that many of the injured have been discharged from hospital and thoughts are with those who are still receiving care.
BBC update may be of interest:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-65050308
-
Thanks Thomas for posting that superb video, that gave far more insight and explanation than I'd seen anywhere else.
Such a horrible incident, it must have been terrifying, when you're not expecting the ship to move at all. Its very lucky indeed that nobody was killed.
She seems like a fascinating ship, I hope her and her crew can continue to do interesting work in future, once this is sorted out.
-
Apparently....CARNIVAL AGAIN! The recent swirling storm that was not strong enough to deserve a name off of the Eastern US made it a bumpy ride for the Carnival Sunshine.
See the Article - https://www.foxweather.com/extreme-weather/carnival-sunshine-passenger-documents-storm-damage (https://www.foxweather.com/extreme-weather/carnival-sunshine-passenger-documents-storm-damage)
Modern cruise passengers are a bunch of Dramatics, Oooooh 20 ft waves...scary!
They would have been huddling in fear on some of the QE2 transatlantics I remember ;D
-
Hi Thomas,
I hope the seatime is mounting up and all is going well!
Thanks for posting the 'Petrel' video.
All very interesting, and still no true explanation of what occurred.
The commentator kept referring to the 'braces', but to pass your Naval Arch exams, I would suggest the correct terminology is used.
They are called 'Breast Shores', and even when I used to dock on flat-bottomed bulk ships we still had plenty of them in place, mainly due to the sudden high winds we get around NZ, and the velocities experienced when the wind passed down the ship's sides when in a floating dry dock.
Cheers,
TonyS.
-
Apparently....CARNIVAL AGAIN! The recent swirling storm that was not strong enough to deserve a name off of the Eastern US made it a bumpy ride for the Carnival Sunshine.
See the Article - https://www.foxweather.com/extreme-weather/carnival-sunshine-passenger-documents-storm-damage (https://www.foxweather.com/extreme-weather/carnival-sunshine-passenger-documents-storm-damage)
Modern cruise passengers are a bunch of Dramatics, Oooooh 20 ft waves...scary!
They would have been huddling in fear on some of the QE2 transatlantics I remember ;D
How would the ship have coped with the 90 foot wave that QE2 encountered during Hurricane Luis (https://www.theqe2story.com/forum/index.php?topic=2841.msg30762#msg30762)
Reading the article part of the problem for the passengers was the lack of communication from the Bridge.
-
Hi Thomas,
I hope the seatime is mounting up and all is going well!
Thanks for posting the 'Petrel' video.
All very interesting, and still no true explanation of what occurred.
The commentator kept referring to the 'braces', but to pass your Naval Arch exams, I would suggest the correct terminology is used.
They are called 'Breast Shores', and even when I used to dock on flat-bottomed bulk ships we still had plenty of them in place, mainly due to the sudden high winds we get around NZ, and the velocities experienced when the wind passed down the ship's sides when in a floating dry dock.
Cheers,
TonyS.
Hello Tony,
I saw an article recently with photos of her bridge windows all boarded up and such, and the news that she's going to be towed to the US but has an uncertain future with even scrapping suggested given apparently she was severely damaged. I'm presuming the severe damage is internal given she looks okay externally, and also given she would've been all over the place inside in refit anyway so a lot of stuff might've been thrown about.
Thank you for the information on the Breast Shores and the correct terminology!
Still no sea time this year so far in phase 4 (the 2nd sea phase of the 5 phase cadetship) although I have very tentative news for joining a handysize bulk carrier in Veracruz, Mexico on June 5th. Nothing more confirmed yet, but hoping to hear during the course of this week as also need my Liberian registry documents and medical (last ship was Marshall Islands).
-
How would the ship have coped with the 90 foot wave that QE2 encountered during Hurricane Luis
Probably with a lot more damage! Even though she is a lot heavier at 102,000 Tons she is shorter, wider and taller,
QE2 was much better at cutting through the waves than these modern floating bathtubs!
What really amused me in the article was the passengers complaining about the lack of Wi-Fi..... ::)
-
BBC News reported today that a Titanic Tourist Submersible is missing. A search is underway and hopefully the sub is found.
It is not known how many people were onboard.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-65953872
A submersible used to take tourists to view the wreck of the Titanic has gone missing in the Atlantic Ocean, sparking a search and rescue mission. The Boston Coastguard told the BBC an operation to find the submersible was under way on Monday.
-
google "titanic sub goes missing" $2500,000/person for 8days $31,250/day? Next get together perhaps?
-
Five people aboard including Hamish Harding.
-
Looks like time is running out in the search for the missing Titan Submersible. It is estimated that the air supply will run out by 11 am BST tomorrow.
There has been reports that underwater noises have been detected, but even if they identify the location of the sub what would be the procedure to rescue the sub - has such an operation been carried out before?
There is news that the Explorers Club have offered to help using remotely operated vehicles, which can go as deep as 6000 metres.
-
There has been reports that underwater noises have been detected, but even if they identify the location of the sub what would be the procedure to rescue the sub - has such an operation been carried out before?
They'd have to try to literally tow it up; fix a couple of cables to it and physically lift it. That would certainly be challenging.
-
Not a disaster yet, but one waiting to happen, which the UN is now crowdfunding to prevent. I heard a radio report about this today, but when I searched the Internet, this is the most recent article I was able to find. Plenty of older articles there, warning of the same disaster, even years ago.
https://news.un.org/en/story/2022/04/1115932
The ironically named ship FSO Safer has been abandoned off the coast of Yemen for the past six years. It contains 1.1 million barrels of oil, which would cause a huge environmental disaster, if the ship disintegrated or sank or exploded, any of which could happen any day now.
And here is a more recent update, showing that the UN has managed to raise some funds for the complicated operation needed.
https://news.un.org/en/story/2022/05/1117982
The terrible situation with FSO Safer seemed so hopeless, with an inevitable terrible oil spill, but amazingly the UN has saved the day - literally.
-
What a great achievement! l
Thank you, Rob, for this important update. Quite amazing that it has become possible, great credit to the UN.
-
Good news that an oil spill disaster has been averted as a result of UN countries working together.
-
P&O Britannia incident
BBC News - Southampton cruise ship and freight ship collide amid Mallorca storm
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-66633547
https://twitter.com/federicoalves/status/1695915209284575503?t=IDuE2fUNYD7YyUFzqco8mQ
-
https://oceanexplorer.noaa.gov/okeanos/explorations/seascape-alaska/ex2306/features/prinsendam/prinsendam.html?fbclid=IwAR0NLwi9wuBG2xVKPH4YlGpZzFp3RGXKONUcNc5TOdhtUPtulD0gJ13a2po (https://oceanexplorer.noaa.gov/okeanos/explorations/seascape-alaska/ex2306/features/prinsendam/prinsendam.html?fbclid=IwAR0NLwi9wuBG2xVKPH4YlGpZzFp3RGXKONUcNc5TOdhtUPtulD0gJ13a2po)
Interesting article about a research mission to the Prinsendam that sank in Alaska in 1980.
-
Third attempt to free Ocean Explorer fails, as COVID cases rise on board.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/ap/article-12517185/Third-attempt-fails-free-luxury-cruise-ship-MV-Ocean-Explorer-ran-aground-Greenland.html
-
I was surprised to read the Ocean Explorer was only built in 2021 as it doesn't look like a new ship! Seems like the passengers are in good spirits at the moment but there will be an investigation into how the boat got stuck in the sea bed. Only three cases of Covid with those affected in isolation, so looks like it is under control, but suspect the Daily Mail and other similar media outlets will try to hype this up. I can image the passengers paid high fares for the expedition, so will be looking for and should get compensation.
-
She's been freed!
https://news.sky.com/story/concerns-grow-for-stranded-cruise-ship-in-greenland-as-third-attempt-to-free-vessel-fails-12960936
-
I would like to know more about this incident on Saga.
What "safety system" are they referring to that would cause the ship to swerve so suddenly that it injured passengers?
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12720809/Pictured-Inside-battered-Saga-cruise-ship-passengers-screamed-lives-wrote-final-messages-loved-ones-ravaged-storms-30ft-waves-crossing-Bay-Biscay.html
-
Another report, perhaps a bit less sensational:
https://www.maritime-executive.com/article/uk-cruise-ship-battered-with-100-passengers-injured-in-bay-of-biscay-storm
-
Another report, perhaps a bit less sensational:
I still marvel how such ships dont tip over in rough seas. Then again l still marvel how an A380 ever gets up in the air. But thats just me i guess.
-
This incident reminds me of something Stephen Payne once said.
On an ocean liner, the bridge should be the highest deck.
https://eastangliabylines.co.uk/exclusive-bylines-editor-in-north-sea-emergency/?s=09
Hurtigruten's MS Maud hit a storm which smashed the windows in the bridge...
There's a photo of the captain doing his job from a lounge above the bridge. Can't help but think they got their priorities wrong when laying out the ship design.
-
I'd suggest the Bridge should, logically, be the highest deck on any ship, liner or not?
-
Someone on board filmed the rogue wave hitting the bow via the cabin camera view.
https://twitter.com/OnDeepWater/status/1738360150430302634
The officers are still operating the ship from a lounge, high above the damaged bridge...
She's now being towed into Bremerhaven (instead of Tilbury).
By all accounts the onboard team have been superb.
-
I would agree with Peter. But its one of those you pays your money you takes your choice!
-
I'd suggest the Bridge should, logically, be the highest deck on any ship, liner or not?
I placed my 1/1200th scale models of Queen Mary 2 and Trollfjord (Maud's sister-ship) front-to-front, just to compare their respective bridge height...
I think it's so low on Maud (ex-Midnatsol) because she was initially designed for the relatively sheltered waters of the Norwegian coastal line.
-
That's a very stark comparison!! :D
-
I placed my 1/1200th scale models of Queen Mary 2 and Trollfjord (Maud's sister-ship) front-to-front, just to compare their respective bridge height...
I think it's so low on Maud (ex-Midnatsol) because she was initially designed for the relatively sheltered waters of the Norwegian coastal line.
Wow.
One of these ships should clearly be carefully avoiding major storms...
-
Maud normally does avoid exceptional weather if possible - was on board when she overnighted due to predicted winds that were actually recorded as 112 knots - have the certificate to prove it. Missed 5 out of 10 ports due to the weather - but as they say every expedition cruise is different.
Maud is a sturdy ship for her size - the main issue I feel these days is ships being repurposed for roles which they were not initially designed for - Maud is a worldwide expedition ship now and will be making her way down to Antarctica for her season down there.
As a traditionalist I agree that the bridge should not have any lounges over it but Stephen Payne was probably the last naval architect to win that battle with QM2.
Regards
Gary
-
https://maritime-executive.com/article/more-cruises-cancel-red-sea-electing-to-deadhead-around-africa
Cruise ships now also avoid the Suez Canal and the Red Sea... for good reasons too.
But why "deadhead" around Africa? Wouldn't it be great to be on one of those ships, with very few fellow passengers, perhaps enjoying a couple of ports that the ships rarely visit?
-
https://www.foxbusiness.com/lifestyle/over-100-cruise-passengers-sickened-after-gastrointestinal-illness-outbreak (https://www.foxbusiness.com/lifestyle/over-100-cruise-passengers-sickened-after-gastrointestinal-illness-outbreak)
UhOh....Vomiting on the Vickie! ;D
Funny how this makes the news these days, I remember several outbreaks on various ships I worked on,
usually caused by a bad batch of seafood or excessive partying. I remember one set of Trans-atlantics on QE2
where a lot of crew and pax would get upset stomachs due to the water tanks being replenished in New York.
One of the engineers told me that the New York water was in fact of high quality, the problem was caused by the
USPH demand for chlorination.
-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kw1hH5XCYU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kw1hH5XCYU)
And woke up to this terrible news in the USA.
Container ship hit a bridge in Baltimore. Looks like the ship lost power before impact.
I know that massive container ships are supposedly efficient but look at what all
that mass can do.....Awful!
-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kw1hH5XCYU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kw1hH5XCYU)
And woke up to this terrible news in the USA.
Container ship hit a bridge in Baltimore. Looks like the ship lost power before impact.
I know that massive container ships are supposedly efficient but look at what all
that mass can do.....Awful!
Why was a large ship not using tugs, to go under a vulnerable bridge that was designed before there were such huge container ships? With the benefit of hindsight, this would seem fairly obvious?
-
Why was a large ship not using tugs, to go under a vulnerable bridge that was designed before there were such huge container ships? With the benefit of hindsight, this would seem fairly obvious?
Exactly my first question Rob!
I also thought that there was an initiative under way to protect bridge piers from these kind of collisions following
a Barge crash that brought down a bridge on the Mississippi.
Here's another question for any former navigation crew, one of the videos shows the ship losing power and
making a dramatic turn to Starboard resulting in the collision.
Whilst I can see that a power outage could cause the rudder to become locked, surely she was headed straight to go under the bridge.
So my question is that if a 95,000 ton vessel is proceeding straight at around 8 knots, how long before she would lose steerage and start drifting?
-
Whilst I can see that a power outage could cause the rudder to become locked, surely she was headed straight to go under the bridge.
So my question is that if a 95,000 ton vessel is proceeding straight at around 8 knots, how long before she would lose steerage and start drifting?
I wonder if she was making a starboard turn to line up with the centre span at the critical moment? If there was also a wind from her portside, that may have been enough - a graphic on the BBC News tonight showed she was only about 15° off course in the last minute or two before the impact.
The news did also say the crew managed to send a mayday call in enough time that the authorities were able to close the bridge to any traffic that wasn't already on it, which made a difference - the time, 01.30, also helped in that respect as there was very little traffic around anyway.
I agree about the tugs, though. It must have been known that the bridge would be vulnerable and it never pays to assume the circumstances would not conspire to create a worst case scenario.
-
Regarding the tugs again, I watched a playback of the marine tracker data, and 2 tugs assist the Dali out of her berth, and with her initial turn, then once she's pointing at the bridge, they leave her to it. By the time she crashes into the bridge, the 2 tugs are docked again. When you watch it, its fairly unbelievable, it also doesn't seem like it would have taken much extra time for them to stay with Dali until she was safely through the bridge.
-
Regarding the tugs again, I watched a playback of the marine tracker data, and 2 tugs assist the Dali out of her berth, and with her initial turn, then once she's pointing at the bridge, they leave her to it. By the time she crashes into the bridge, the 2 tugs are docked again. When you watch it, its fairly unbelievable, it also doesn't seem like it would have taken much extra time for them to stay with Dali until she was safely through the bridge.
Had they known she was going to loose power then they possibly would have remained on station but, unfortunately tug boat Captains aren't psycics, neither stangely enough are Pilots or ship's Master.
-
Had they known she was going to loose power then they possibly would have remained on station but, unfortunately tug boat Captains aren't psycics, neither stangely enough are Pilots or ship's Master.
Its not anyone on board the ships I'm blaming. Its someone like a civil/structural engineer, realising that the bridge pre-dates big ships, and wasn't designed in the same way as a new one would be (with the buffers "dolphins" I heard them called to protect the legs, so is very vulnerable. Also the fact that its an utterly crucial part of the cities road network, and has the capacity to block the entire harbour, all would surely lend to someone in authority saying that tugs should stay with large ships until the ships are clear of the bridge? I've heard lots of stories of power black-outs on ships (including QE2 and QM2), so its not that unusual... similarly high-sided ships like this one getting caught in the wind and pushed off course.
This armchair expert thinks that someone should have said - the bridge is fine - its well maintained and as designed, but it wasn't designed to cope with a modern ship hitting it, so we need to take precautions.
-
Whether it is true or not, some interviews with dock workers indicated Dali was having electrical problems during her two days in port. I can’t imagine that the captain would take her to sea on a 20 something day voyage with the possibility of getting stuck in the middle of the ocean in a storm, and we would have another El Faro.
Something else to consider in this age of terror attacks, and it doesn’t seem as though Dali was being used as a weapon, but it does seem to me that extra precautions need to be taken on all shipping near bridges. Terror attack or not, a major port and a major roadway are incapacitated for no knowing how long.
There are three naval ships stuck in the harbor with no way to get out.
-
https://www.foxnews.com/us/could-protective-barriers-prevented-baltimore-bridge-collapse (https://www.foxnews.com/us/could-protective-barriers-prevented-baltimore-bridge-collapse)
Regarding the question of Pier protection for the bridge I saw this today.
The following statistic is quite disturbing!
From 1960 to 2015, there were 35 major bridge collapses worldwide due to ship or barge collisions, with a total of 342 people killed, according to a 2018 report from the World Association for Waterborne Transport Infrastructure.
-
I read recently, wish I could remember where, but it was since this disaster occurred, that a bridge in the eastern US in a similar situation had had these "dolphins" retrofitted.
The cost was over $100 million !
I know, no value on human life, going to cost more than that to sort thuis out now etc, etc...... but as they say, hindsight is 20/20.
Ladies and Gents, I dont know the answer. BUT I do know that as in every disaster "the name of the game is the name to bla
AND they have just pulled 2 more bodies from a truck near by.
Do the Forth bridges have any protection of this sort?
-
In 2004 i was seconded to Miami Office for 6 months to assist the Company Security Officer with several 'projects' including, QM2s initial call into New York and, later that year, her stay in Athens for the 2004 Olympics.
Prior to QM2s initial call into NY we, CSO and myself, visited NY to have a meeting with NYPD Special Ops team, who were based in a set of offices in an unsecured car park somewhere in Brooklyn. After 'tailgating' someone leaving the facility, we wandered around until stumbling across the two NYPD Officers we had our appointment with. During our meeting we covered the many aspects of the visit that presented 'security' risks until they ame to theri biggest worry. That was that a stowaway could hijack the ship and drive it into the Verrazano Bridge, thereby bringing NY to a virtual standstill. We 'reasured' them that should this occure, and the risk assesment of that was very, very low, then the ship would come to a halt when it struck the rock pillars that extended out into the bay by about 40/50ft, that the concrete pillars were built on. This was one of the factors CSO had looked into some weeks before in consultation with a Civil Engineer.
-
Do the Forth bridges have any protection of this sort?
Images attached are from the original 60s built forth bridge
-
So very sorry - this must be an appalling shock, as well a dreadful nuisance for the entire community of Baltimore too.
I understood that the crew on board the MV Dali were just numbering 21.
2 Pilots had joined.
Given these numbers, it would seem to be pitifully few - no more on watch than say 5 at a time -
If crew included the Galleystaff as well as the Bridge and Engine room etc,
then would this be a typical number for Any type of container ship...?
Another report here
https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-dali-captain-ukrainian-baltimore-bridge-601539523278
-
So very sorry - this must be an appalling shock, as well a dreadful nuisance for the entire community of Baltimore too.
I understood that the crew on board the MV Dali were just numbering 21.
2 Pilots had joined.
Given these numbers, it would seem to be pitifully few - no more on watch than say 5 at a time -
If crew included the Galleystaff as well as the Bridge and Engine room etc,
then would this be a typical number for Any type of container ship...?
Another report here
https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-dali-captain-ukrainian-baltimore-bridge-601539523278
The crew number is normal for a modern cargo ship and all the crew would've been involved in departing port except the cook and messman who would've likely been sleeping ready to be up early for their usual daily slog.
-
Regarding the tugs again, I watched a playback of the marine tracker data, and 2 tugs assist the Dali out of her berth, and with her initial turn, then once she's pointing at the bridge, they leave her to it. By the time she crashes into the bridge, the 2 tugs are docked again. When you watch it, its fairly unbelievable, it also doesn't seem like it would have taken much extra time for them to stay with Dali until she was safely through the bridge.
The speed of the ship by then (around 8 knots) is above the speed the tugs can do their job properly if at all. The ship going at this speed and higher for her own steerage for aiming to go under the middle of the bridge's span. Also when a ship gets up enough speed she'll tend to gravitate to the middle of the deep water channel due to the pressure zones at play. Squat could also come into the equation for bridge clearance even at 8 knots - ships sometimes having the squat amount at a given speed in a poster on the bridge.
So the compromise is do you risk this worst case and thankfully rare scenario happening again or do you risk the ship going under the bridge at around 3 to 4 knots absolute maximum with tugs where she is even more at the mercy of the wind with her high sides which the tugs may or may not be able to counteract enough at that point (different to when she's barely moving and is near the berth with space to spare). The latter scenario then bringing line snapping even more into the equation for the tugs to deal with as well as the fore and aft mooring teams on the ship.
The bridge should've been better prepared for this worst case scenario.
-
So my question is that if a 95,000 ton vessel is proceeding straight at around 8 knots, how long before she would lose steerage and start drifting?
The wind and the current would decide this likely before her rudder would lose directional authority if it were in completely still weather and water conditions so it's very variable.
On my first ship (the Afromax oil tanker) it surprised me how slowly we were going and still had steerage when manoeuvring alongside the oil terminals. Helm orders were still being issued at times as we went dead slow ahead and dead slow astern and the tugs manoeuvred us alongside. It surprised me how much manoeuvring the ship did herself despite us only going 2 knots absolute maximum by that point. Whichever of the ABs on the helm at the time would call out when steerage was lost during the docking process.
It's definitely a team effort between a cargo ship and the tugs despite cargo ships not being known for their manoeuvrability often being single screw, single rudder and often lacking bow thrusters as well as having a high deadweight when fully loaded.
-
Thanks for the additional insider information!
From knowing about Waverley, I'd realised that going too slow can be a problem too, I think really the conclusion here is that the bridge definitely should have been better protected, and I would think thats what the enquiry should come out with.
There must be other states/cities/countries rushing to upgrade theirs now, I should think...
-
Thankyou Thomas for the info, wish the news stations would reach out to someone like yourself before going on the air with their crackpot theories! Particularly liked the 'why didn't they drop the Anchors?', folks have been watching too many movies.
-
Thankyou Thomas for the info, wish the news stations would reach out to someone like yourself before going on the air with their crackpot theories! Particularly liked the 'why didn't they drop the Anchors?', folks have been watching too many movies.
The Mighty Mo's handbrake turn in Battleship (2012) is repeating in my mind now ;D
-
The Mighty Mo's handbrake turn in Battleship (2012) is repeating in my mind now
Yes exactly, fun movie by the way, also like the sudden stop in Pirates of the Caribbean ;D.
On a side not regarding 'Battleship' where the museum ship gets re-activated, the USS New Jersey was just towed to drydock for maintenance and was able to fire her guns on the way.
-
Excellent she was able to fire some of her guns! Presumably one of the pair of 5 inch secondary mounts? I've seen bits of her move to and sitting in drydock but missed that bit.
-
Here is a commentary from Chief Makoi on the Dali. This man is extremely intelligent and well read. If you pass any of this on, please give him credit.
Also his site is well worth reading. He was recently asked to give a dissertation to a large packed house in London.
-
Some progress going on in Baltimore.
A large section of the bridge that was resting on the container ship was demolished with explosives yesterday.
-
Thanks Chris for posting the photo that shows the fire from the explosives - brilliant picture.
-
The video is pretty spectacular too :D
(https://youtu.be/3a8iyDhCWpw?si=lluDyJx03fV2Esvh)
-
Saw this image, vessel name unknown……Ouch!
-
BBC has reported on ships affected by Gaemi, Taiwan's first typhoon of the year.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/ce98pq4e3d1t
"The MT Terra Nova sank in the Manila bay while carrying 1.5 million litres of industrial fuel, prompting fears that it could be the worst oil spill in Philippine history if not contained"
Rescuers in Taiwan are searching for nine sailors missing after cargo ship Fu Shun capsized.