Author Topic: 50 years ago... (August to December 1964)  (Read 6678 times)

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Online Michael Gallagher

50 years ago... (August to December 1964)
« on: Nov 27, 2014, 03:10 PM »
We are fast approaching the 50th anniversary of the contract being placed for QE2 on 30 December 1964.

Let's take a look back now 50 years and see what Cunard was up to. Enjoy!

August 1964

At the end of August 1964 Cunard was in a position to invite tenders for Q4. The firms likely to be invited to tender were John Brown and Co., Clydebank; Cammell Laird and Co., Birkenhead; the Fairfield Shipbuilding and Engineering Company, Glasgow; Harland and Wolf, Belfast; Swan, Hinter and Wigham Richardson, Wallsend-on-Tyne would combine with Vickers Armstrongs, Wallsend.

The last two firms had formed a consortium to tender for Q3 but that was for a larger vessel so it was felt they would tender alone for Q4.

Many people still considered the Tyne shipyards to be the favourites for Q4 given their likely success in attracting Q3. John Brown’s order book was the least full of all the shipyards expected to tender and the disruption of Q4 on Clydebank would be virtually non-existent.

Issuing of Tender Document – September 1964

The tender document Cunard issued to the yards on 9 September 1964 consisted of 550 closely-typed foolscap pages of plans and specifications. Price was to be Cunard’s main consideration and the deadline for the shipyards was late November.

In mid-October Cammell Laird advised Cunard that “regretfully” they would not be tendering for the new Cunarder. The yard’s order book and delivery commitments were such that it could not commence work on the new ship until nearly a year later than the date necessary to meet Cunard’s delivery requirements.

A month later the Fairfield yard announced it was also dropping out of the competition. Again the yard stipulated its order book and commitments as being the reason for not pursuing Q4.

The main John Brown board met at The Sanctuary, John Brown’s London office, to discuss and approve the terms of the quotation for Q4. In consideration of the great prestige of the contract, it was agreed to cover full costs and full charges but include no profit, although this was kept secret at the time. The board felt that ‘extras’, by way of changes to the contract during construction, would ensure no loss. It was their view that the contract for this ship simply must be won.

The tender from Harland and Wolf arrived at Cunard’s Liverpool Head Office on 28 November some 48 hours before the deadline. The next tender to arrive was from John Brown and the final one (delivered by hand by the two chairmen) came from the Tyne on 1 December.

30 November 1964

The tenders from the remaining three shipbuilders were opened:

   Vickers and Swan Hunter Tender

      £22,547,428
October 1968 delivery date    (subject to contract being
awarded by the end of January 1965)

   John Brown Tender

      £21,677,000
      Delivery May 1968

   Harland and Wolff

      £23,825,000
      Delivery end of 1968

John Brown’s price was the lowest and its delivery date of May 1968, the earliest. However, Sir John Brocklebank and his staff were shocked to note that all three tenders were in excess of the £22 million set aside for the ship. John Brown’s price was £870,000 less than Vickers and £2,148,000 less than Harland & Wolff. John Brown’s terms for overheads etc were also more acceptable.

The shipyards had been asked to quote a fixed price but all three stated that particularly due to the long building period they were unable to do so. At the time it was difficult to obtain fixed prices from the shipbuilders for any type of ship. Likewise there was no penalty clause for late delivery of the ship – this had been discussed during the preparation of the tender for Q3 when all the available builders indicated that they would not accept any penalty clause.

Even the price submitted by John Brown was £2 million more than Cunard had estimated the cost of a new vessel would be. On receipt of the tenders there were several urgent meetings with Cunard management adamant that Q4 was still too expensive and may have to be cancelled. The problem for management was that the ageing Queens would soon need to be taken out of commission which would leave Caronia and the four Canadian ships in commission with the result being a severe reduction in staff.

John Brown was advised that their tender was the lowest but that the price would have to be cut down further before a contract could be signed. Cunard asked the yard to reduce the cost of the ship by approximately £1.5 million. To qualify in time and obtain the benefits of the loan under the government’s Shipbuilding Credit Scheme it would be necessary for the ship to be paid for before 31 December 1964. That meant that within a period of two weeks the building agreement had to be prepared, agreed and signed. It was essential that the final figure be reached quickly.

Cost Saving

A team of Cunard personnel, led by Dan Wallace and Tom Kameen, went to Clydebank to meet with John Starks, John Brown’s Technical Director, and George Strachan, the Director of the Engine Department. Over the course of three weeks, with beer and sandwiches at weekends, the cuts were made. Wallace would later refer to an “extremely hectic seven of eight days”.

The group went through the specifications and managed to reduce the machinery (main and auxiliary) costs by £500,000 and the hull and electrical price by £1.5 million.

The whole tender was studied again and suppliers were asked to re-submit prices based on amended tenders. Even things such as the reduction in specification requirements for cabin furnishing (saving £62,000) to using white instead of colour sanitary units in passenger cabins (saving £9,000) were incorporated.

The most significant deletions and alterations, in a list prepared on 13 December 1964, to the original tender were as follows:

Deletions

Perhaps the most significant deletion was one of the boilers which was deleted to also save weight and space. QE2 was originally to have had four boilers which could maintain full service speed with only three of these in use, allowing one to be shut down for maintenance without serious loss of headway. With hindsight the deletion of the fourth boiler proved to be a false economy as the lack of spare boiler capacity would compromise the liner’s reliable operation as a steam ship.

                                   Saving (£)

•   Stern anchor.
•   The sliding roof on the Sports Deck.                   27,300
•   A set of stabilizers (four fins instead of six).                43,420
•   One auto tensioning winch   .               8,000   
•   Cathodic Protection.                  6,600
•   Two aft cranes.                               32,000
•   The aft MacGregor hatch and trunk.                    27,000
•   The aft lateral thrust units.                         46,000
•   Mental Ward and Mortuary.               1,600
•   Verandah Grill from funnel base (the Grill was
relocated in the main dining saloon area).                35,000
•   Fur Store.                        2,000
•   Breakwater.                        1,000
•   Six lifts.                                 40,500
•   Two gangway handling winches.                1,700
•   Special cruising gangways.                   500
•   Twin boiler casings.                      3,500
•   Insulation in the way of the steam pipe passage.

Alterations

•   The cruise launches were modified.
•   The forward cranes to be Stothert & Pitt.
•   The boat davits to be steel in lieu of aluminium.                69,000
•   Omit the painting of aluminium behind the Linings.             12,000
•   Enamel beds for crew instead of aluminium.                10,000
•   The relocation of insulated cargo from aft to forward.      1,000
•   The Boiler Seatings were reduced in number.


The men were also able to re-arrange the ship by pointing out anomalies in the passenger departments’ requirements regarding Pullman berths etc and this secured berths for an additional 200 passengers.

Some things, such as the stern anchor (reinstated in September 1967 at a cost of £25,000) and the Mortuary would be reinstated at the build of the

Contract Signing

On 30 December 1964 Lord Aberconway and Sir John Brocklebank signed the contract for Q4 – the biggest passenger ship contract ever clinched in Britain. The contract was signed within the solid walls of the Bank of England. Sir John had telephone the unsuccessful yards earlier that morning to advise them of the company’s decision. (Both firms were in a race against the clock because of the Government decision to implement a Corporation Tax, fated from 1965 and payable on 1 January 1966).

When the news was flashed to the Clyde, church bells rang out and there was much jubilation in the yard and on the Clyde as work for a large number of people on the world’s most prestigious shipbuilding contract had been secured for three years. Cunard, too, was delighted that the old partnership was in business once again. Tom Kameen recalls that John Brown’s was held in very high regard by Cunard, based, partly, on the technical excellence of the two original Queens and, partly, on the “terrific support and assistance given to Cunard in running their fleet”.

Lord Aberconway:

“Clydeside will have its happiest Hogmany for years. There will be no need to lay on a special celebration”.

Sir John:

   “This confirms our intention to stay in the forefront of the North Atlantic trade. This ship will be the match of any foreseeable competitor and of any cruising liner”.

Although Cunard stated they had not made any arrangements to name the liner pressure was mounting from America for a ‘Queen’ name while Princess Anne was the favourite in England.

The Daily Express said:

“One suggestion: Queen Victoria. Another suggestion: Jacqueline Kennedy. Best Bet: Princess Anne”.
      
In less than an hour Cunard were already receiving bookings for the new liner; 100 people, mainly Americans, registered on 30 December.
« Last Edit: Sep 25, 2024, 09:26 AM by Lynda Bradford »

Online Lynda Bradford

Re: 50 years ago...
« Reply #1 on: Nov 27, 2014, 04:17 PM »
50 years ago - where has the time gone!

 I can remember the press covering the story and the people of Clydebank were happy that jobs would be secured as a result of John Brown's getting the contract. 

Glasgow Herald 30 December 1964
« Last Edit: Sep 25, 2024, 08:59 AM by Lynda Bradford »
I was proud to be involved with planning QE2's 50 year conference in September 2017 in Clydebank

Offline cunardqueen

Re: 50 years ago...
« Reply #2 on: Nov 27, 2014, 06:37 PM »
Quote
We are fast approaching the 50th anniversary of the contract being placed for QE2 on 30 December 1964.

Let's take a look back now 50 years and see what Cunard was up to. Enjoy!
   

I DID !!!!!! as always an amazing feature to read. Thanks so much for sharing this information..
A good enough reason to celebrate and toast QE2 when lm in Vegas... ;)
From the moment you first glimpsed the Queen,
 you just knew you were in for a very special time ahead.!

Offline Twynkle

Re: 50 years ago...
« Reply #3 on: Nov 27, 2014, 07:56 PM »
I did too!
Hi Michael, Thank you so much for this.

It feels intensely moving to think again about what was going on in Liverpool at the time - the parties were fab, all that was such fun in the Sixties was well underway; there was a huge amount of energy amongst what we might now term as the 'guv'ners' and their families, and we knew there were some very special secrets to keep.
More importantly, I have always felt so guilty / ashamed because whilst the few 'select' areas of Liverpool and the Wirral enjoyed the benefits that Cunard and many other Lines invested in the City, it was in Glasgow as well as the North East that definitely much and many more of the benefits should have been felt.
(With very many apologies if this seems patronising or too contentious!)

Offline Alan Snelson

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Re: 50 years ago...
« Reply #4 on: Nov 27, 2014, 08:00 PM »
Thanks Michael, yet another fascinating insight in to the early history of QE2
Don't just be part of her past, be part of her history!

Online Isabelle Prondzynski

Re: 50 years ago...
« Reply #5 on: Nov 27, 2014, 10:42 PM »
Thank you, Michael! It is good at this time to look back and feel again something of the joy and excitement there was as the plans became reality and the contract was prepared and signed.

Another great contribution to keeping the legend alive...

Offline Cunarder Man

Re: 50 years ago...
« Reply #6 on: Nov 28, 2014, 09:35 AM »
Brilliant! Thanks Michael.

Offline June Ingram

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Re: 50 years ago...
« Reply #7 on: Dec 02, 2014, 09:18 PM »
Thank you very much, Michael, for allowing us to share again the excitement that was felt at the end of 1964 with Q4 becoming a reality !   :)
QE2 - the ship for all of time, a ship of timeless beauty !

Offline Clydebuilt1971

Re: 50 years ago...
« Reply #8 on: Dec 03, 2014, 01:22 PM »
Contract Signing

On 30 December 1964 Lord Aberconway and Sir John Brocklebank signed the contract for Q4 – the biggest passenger ship contract ever clinched in Britain. The contract was signed within the solid walls of the Bank of England. Sir John had telephone the unsuccessful yards earlier that morning to advise them of the company’s decision. (Both firms were in a race against the clock because of the Government decision to implement a Corporation Tax, fated from 1965 and payable on 1 January 1966).

When the news was flashed to the Clyde, church bells rang out and there was much jubilation in the yard and on the Clyde as work for a large number of people on the world’s most prestigious shipbuilding contract had been secured for three years. Cunard, too, was delighted that the old partnership was in business once again. Tom Kameen recalls that John Brown’s was held in very high regard by Cunard, based, partly, on the technical excellence of the two original Queens and, partly, on the “terrific support and assistance given to Cunard in running their fleet”.

Lord Aberconway:

“Clydeside will have its happiest Hogmany for years. There will be no need to lay on a special celebration”.

Sir John:

   “This confirms our intention to stay in the forefront of the North Atlantic trade. This ship will be the match of any foreseeable competitor and of any cruising liner”.



And she was right up until she left the fleet - OK perhaps a bit of a shakey start to her career but once she got over that... well the rest is history and who better than to post it here than Michael.

Thankyou Sir

Gav

Offline David Burdett

Re: 50 years ago...
« Reply #9 on: Dec 30, 2014, 07:15 PM »
Do plans exist showing the layout with a Verandah Grill at the base of the funnel?

Offline CAP

Re: 50 years ago...
« Reply #10 on: Mar 16, 2015, 09:17 AM »
I've just acquired some interesting material pertaining to the 125th anniversary of the company.  As you would expect of the time much is being made of the new ship and I though this image from the back of the Times supplement of 1965 quite poignant.

In addition I've copied the front page from the paper and the model being tested is of course the new 58,000 ton liner!

Online Lynda Bradford

Re: 50 years ago...
« Reply #11 on: Mar 16, 2015, 09:35 AM »
Thanks Chris, it is always wonderful when you find a little gem like this. 
I was proud to be involved with planning QE2's 50 year conference in September 2017 in Clydebank

Offline Chris

Re: 50 years ago...
« Reply #12 on: Mar 16, 2015, 03:32 PM »
Lovely snippets of history there.

The vast majority of people I spoke to aboard the Cunard liners last week think QE2 is being converted into a hotel as we speak.
🎥 Check out my QE2 & Cruise Ship Videos: https://www.youtube.com/chrisframeofficial/

Offline June Ingram

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Re: 50 years ago...
« Reply #13 on: Mar 16, 2015, 04:59 PM »
The newspaper clipping of Cunard's 125th anniversary is especially poignant.  Does it seem possible that 50 years have come and gone ?  QE2 has made her appearance on the world stage and has left it.  On the 175th anniversary, the caption could read "QE2 was here".   :'(
QE2 - the ship for all of time, a ship of timeless beauty !

Offline cunardqueen

Re: 50 years ago...
« Reply #14 on: Mar 16, 2015, 05:08 PM »
Quote
  The vast majority of people I spoke to aboard the Cunard liners last week think QE2 is being converted into a hotel as we speak.   

Sadly l find that is still very much the case when l mention the name QE2....
The propaganda that has been being spewed out from Dubai, does nothing to dispell this and l fear that each time we need to make news about QE2 it needs to be more dramatic than the time before, showing a ship tied up sadly doesnt have a dramatic effect, and if it does its very quickly blown over.
Her owners seem quite happy to sit there and do absolutely nothing to confirm or deny and fact or fiction and to just ride out the storm, it soon passes and we are back to square one.. >:(
From the moment you first glimpsed the Queen,
 you just knew you were in for a very special time ahead.!